Kevin Spacey

[Gotmygladragson]

Just saw the not guilty verdict. I haven’t been following it closely but from the bits I have seen, I’m surprised. Was this what was expected?

@AtomicBlondeRose "a friend of a friend" is all it took to for you to believe this guy was a rapist. Wow you have such integrity.

It’s still 12 random members of the public. And it’s not like the US where jury selection can be decided between the defence and prosecution. You get what you get.

Anyway, can anyone explain why we heard so many random stories from celebrities?

Unfortunately for you, people can believe / think what they want.

A 20/30 year age gap 10-20 years ago would have been KS at age 50 and the alleged victims in their 20s...

Is anyone suggesting that?

There is definitely an argument for scrapping juries, especially in the cases of sexual offence cases. Julie Bindel writes about it, and how the jury led justice system contributes to the low conviction rates of rape.

And god forbid it could be those that read the Daily Mail and not the Guardian, eh.

Can I ask why you think they’d be very careful over who they picked for the jury? How do you think juries are actually selected?

Yep, this.

These accusations are the only ones which have both been reported and were deemed to hold enough evidence to be criminally prosecutable.

It's the tip of the iceberg.

Wouldn’t your cousin’s brother be your cousin?!

Yes, I did realise that after I had posted but too late then😂, I meant random relatives that always pop up on these threads

Well we have to hope there IS a mix of people on a jury of beliefs and backgrounds - it’s basically why we have juries. So a mix of the public can be involved in the criminal justice system.

However, the jury concept goes back centuries to a time when only middle class men could serve on them - I think it’s time to review how well juries work.

And sometimes, User164, it could be those that cannot read at all, like a neighbour of mine, many years ago, who brought the letter calling him to jury service round to me, so I could read it to him. I was glad to not be in the dock with him as part of deciding my fate.

@LawnmowerBlues no I wasn’t saying the Jury would have been especially picked as ones who are KS fans - it was more @AutumnCrow who seemed suspicious that members of the Jury were hugging him afterwards. There were probably people on the Jury who had no clue who he is.

@WeetabixTowels the court would have had more than 12 potential jurors to start with.
They would have had to fill out a questionnaire.
For example I expect the questions would have included -
Do you have any links with Kevin Spacey.
Have you worked with him.
Have you worked at the Old Vic
etc
Similar questions would have been asked about the 4 accusers.
Plus the legal teams.

Yes I realise that but it’s almost impossible not to know who an A lost star like Kevin Spacey is and not have some sort of bias. Famous loved actors and stars seem to automatically get away with everything by virtue of who they are. OJ and MJ being two of the most obviously guilty people on the face of the planet being examples.

Then again like I said earlier I’d need to read further into the claims of the alleged victims in this particular trial to decide if KS is guilty. But the ‘bring a celebrity witness in’ tactic does seem like a clever diversion and makes me quite suspicious of KS’s legal team

@WeetabixTowels and as @newnamethanks says if a potential juror is discovered to have a learning disability or difficulty they may not be included.
If they turn up and are 8 months pregnant they will probably get dismissed.
What I basically said - several posts back - is they don’t literally call on 12 people and say “you’re it”. They call up more incase some people really aren’t suitable for that case.
My husband also did Jury Service. His case was a long and complicated one. It was expected in advance to be very long. It went on for almost 4 months I think in the end.
Right at the start the potential jurors were asked if they really couldn’t commit to such a long case. If they couldn’t they were not put on that case (still did their 2 weeks but on shorter cases).

@WeetabixTowels I know several people who have probably never heard of Kevin Spacey (or know little about him).

I don’t see how my opinion here affects anyone else. I wasn’t on the jury, and if I had been, I dare say I’d have come to the same conclusion because you’re only judging the evidence and the case set before you. My personal opinion isn’t asked for in that sense. And so it could be that while I think he’s a predatory sleaze, I still couldn’t hand down a guilty verdict. That’s the criminal justice system in action. It does mean that people get away with appalling behaviour.

I also think there’s a bit of homophobic attitudes here with the “well that’s what gay men are like!” tropes going on. If it was a rich man with young women - yes, that happens all the time and it also gets called out! Consensual relationships are fine. What we’re talking about here is someone potentially abusing their fake and power. I’m not sure why it’s controversial. Clearly it’s hard to prove where the boundaries lie. I’m sure the men involved know though.

The PP’s mentioning Kevin Spacey hugging members of the jury after the trial. As I watched the news footage I am sure it was said that he was hugging court security employees? Maybe I misheard? Anyway it might be an idea for KS to avoid hugging anyone he doesn’t know well for a while. I agree with a PP who mentioned ‘a hole in his heart’. It would be nice to hear he has settled down with a decent partner.

In the case of Elton John, he testified that Kevin Spacey only attended one of his parties, that it was in 2001, and that KS came there in a private jet, which contradicts what one of the accusers said about an assault happening in 2004 or 2005 and that it took place in a car on the way to one of Elton John’s party.

Also, someone as well-connected and famous as KS is going to likely have a lot of celebrity friends and acquaintances, so it’s hardly surprising some gave positive character statements.

Juries have a right to anonymity in the UK and the press know this so I’d be surprised if they caught them on camera.

IIRC jurors can’t even put themselves? They can in the US and every juror on the OJ trial released a book about it

Ah I see, thank you that helps!

So the ‘groping on the way to Eltons Tiara and Whatsit’ party then couldn’t have happened?

I can absolutely see that. But it's not illegal.

It could have done, if the accuser forgot he was going there with KS in a private jet, rather than in a car a few years later, as he stated.

When I was on a jury many years ago there were many more than 12 people in the waiting room waiting to be selected. One chap wasn't eligible because he was the Judge's milkman.