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Original poster

Kevin Spacey

250 replies

Gotmygladragson · 26/07/2023 16:37

Just saw the not guilty verdict. I haven’t been following it closely but from the bits I have seen, I’m surprised. Was this what was expected?

OP posts:
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5
Brumbies · 26/07/2023 18:17

lovenotwar149 · 26/07/2023 16:39

He's guilty as f*. in my opinion

Were you on the jury?
Did you hear all the evidence?

SisterMaryLoquacious · 26/07/2023 18:17

He didn't get sacked because of these specific criminal charges. He got sacked for a large list of accusations of inappropriate behaviour towards a many young men in many different jobs in various countries.

The UK criminal charges came much later, after he'd already been removed from every role, so there's no real reason that this verdict should make a difference. People get sacked for behaviour which is inappropriate but not criminal, (or not provably criminal) all the time.

Brk · 26/07/2023 18:18

It’s very difficult to prove these kind of allegations. Look at how rape has a convinction rate of less than one per cent.

They didn’t manage to proove that he did it. Doesn’t mean he didn’t do it.

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ThatshallotBaby · 26/07/2023 18:26

My young male cousin was propositioned by him years ago. I would think he’s probably guilty.

CandyflossABC · 26/07/2023 18:28

LlynTegid · 26/07/2023 18:04

It was not proved beyond reasonable doubt, seems to me. There are some people who I say were acquitted, some found not guilty, because in my opinion there is a difference.

There is no legal difference between being acquitted and being found not guilty in this case. If you are found not guilty by a jury you are acquitted. The direction given by the judge to the jury would have been that to find him guilty the jury must be “sure”. Beyond reasonable doubt is terminology that is no longer used in directions to juries.

tigger1001 · 26/07/2023 18:29

AtomicBlondeRose · 26/07/2023 17:58

I’m not sure John “gets his dick out in public” Barrowman is a good person to compare anyone to!

Exactly what I was thinking! Hardly a good example of great behaviour!

Willmafrockfit · 26/07/2023 18:32

what a terrible few years he has had, i hope he can rebuild his career.

SaltyGod · 26/07/2023 18:34

I was surprised as a friend of mine saw him act in the alleged way with a friend of hers, who was absolutely not reciprocating and tried to get him to stop.

I believe my friend. She told me years ago before any of the news stories broke.

Sadly I think such cases are very hard to prove

SleepingStandingUp · 26/07/2023 18:38

Noizettely · 26/07/2023 18:02

That’s hearsay clearly…! Not evidence.

I sometimes wonder is it’s about time we abolished juries.

Show quote history

GrinGrin

TeenLifeMum · 26/07/2023 18:41

This highlights the issues with trial by social media. People make up their mind before the legal proceedings and his career is in pieces.

TeenLifeMum · 26/07/2023 18:42

My young male cousin was propositioned by him years ago. I would think he’s probably guilty.

when did it become illegal to proposition someone?

RegentCafe · 26/07/2023 20:01

ThatshallotBaby · 26/07/2023 18:26

My young male cousin was propositioned by him years ago. I would think he’s probably guilty.

That isn't a crime?
Assuming he was an adult.

Jux · 26/07/2023 20:13

There is an important principle here. First, you are innocent until proven to be guilty. Guilt has not been proven, therefore he IS innocent. That may only be for the moment, but right now he is.

Secondly, as far as I know in all these trials involving high profile people accused of sex offences, guilt has been proven, but unless a defendant can be seen to 'win', ie be found not guilty, there is a risk that these trials stop being actual trials and become just performances. It is important to the principles of justice that it is possible to be found not guilty in these circumstances, and for that to be seen to happen.

Whether this was the right time for that to happen is another matter.

SammyScrounge · 26/07/2023 20:16

AtomicBlondeRose · 26/07/2023 16:56

I vividly remember years ago - I mean it must have been 2003/4 - visiting a friend in London who had a friend who worked at the Old Vic and who said that Spacey had quite a reputation for being “a bit of a tart”, so I can well believe these accusations.

'Bit of a tart implies promiscuity not criminal activity.

AtomicBlondeRose · 26/07/2023 20:19

Does everyone think I am a complete idiot? Of course it doesn’t mean criminal activity. It does however show a pattern of established behaviour which makes the accusations against him not entirely unbelievable, and some other stories on here back that up. I don’t know if he’s guilty or not. I am however free to have my own opinions on the issue and going on what I’ve heard and what I know about male behaviour I know what those opinions are. Given that MN is usually very hot on scoping out predatory and creepy behaviour from men it is weird here that a lack of prosecution in this case must mean he’s never done anything wrong at all!

WeAreTheHeroes · 26/07/2023 20:25

CandyflossABC · 26/07/2023 18:28

There is no legal difference between being acquitted and being found not guilty in this case. If you are found not guilty by a jury you are acquitted. The direction given by the judge to the jury would have been that to find him guilty the jury must be “sure”. Beyond reasonable doubt is terminology that is no longer used in directions to juries.

Show quote history

When I did jury service a couple of years ago, we were told you had to be sure. That has replaced "beyond reasonable doubt" as a jury direction because it's easier to understand. It means the same thing legally though.

Carpediemmakeitcount · 26/07/2023 20:33

AtomicBlondeRose · 26/07/2023 16:59

@Needmorelego - no, but feeling like you’re very sexually desirable, seeking more “conquests”, feeling invincible and powerful - those things go hand in hand and are typical male behaviour. We see it all the time.

A man doesn't need money to feel like that.

EmmaEmerald · 26/07/2023 20:35

Smokeebacon · 26/07/2023 17:17

When I lived in London I used to see him about with very young and very handsome men. I'm sure there was a power imbalance in his sexual relationships.

FFS so did I! It's not illegal for a man to have a dashing young lover. They might have been gold diggers, or thought he was wonderful....if I were a gay man of legal age and Kevin Spacey asked me out, would I go? Hell yes!

benfoldsfivefan · 26/07/2023 20:38

AtomicBlondeRose · 26/07/2023 20:19

Does everyone think I am a complete idiot? Of course it doesn’t mean criminal activity. It does however show a pattern of established behaviour which makes the accusations against him not entirely unbelievable, and some other stories on here back that up. I don’t know if he’s guilty or not. I am however free to have my own opinions on the issue and going on what I’ve heard and what I know about male behaviour I know what those opinions are. Given that MN is usually very hot on scoping out predatory and creepy behaviour from men it is weird here that a lack of prosecution in this case must mean he’s never done anything wrong at all!

So he’s propositioned much younger men - do have I! Who gives a shit?

LemonLymanDotCom · 26/07/2023 20:57

Weefreetiffany · 26/07/2023 16:45

I’m so so surprised by the verdict. It’s pretty well known in TV and theatre that the accusations are not unfounded. I heard at one point young men in the young vic were advised not to let themselves be in a situation where they are alone with him. He was dropped and cancelled so quickly because of the behind the scenes rumours and experiences of other young actors. But it seems like the jury heard something we did not. I wonder what will happen next.

Ditto. I’ve heard the same rumours from people in the business.

What an unpleasant little man he is.

lljkk · 26/07/2023 21:14

My young male cousin was propositioned by him years ago. I would think he’s probably guilty.

Is propositioning someone a crime now?
I'm too old to keep up with this craziness.

Seems to me that considering the huge space between being a saint and being a criminal, Spacey is at neither extreme. Just like the rest of us.

Smokeebacon · 26/07/2023 21:50

@EmmaEmerald true. I'm just saying his type was very very young men. The fact they were so young and he was rich famous and powerful could lead one to suspect he enjoyed liaisons and relationships where the balance was off.

VeniVidiWeeWee · 26/07/2023 22:29

@mnhq

How many potentially libellous posts are you going to allow?

About time to pull this?

HRTQueen · 26/07/2023 22:48

Over 30 men over the past few years have come forward with claims

yet these 4 particular men are apparently confused over what happened

yeah right

another powerful wealthy man with influence gets away again. We see men being aggressive on video, we have the same stories over and over again, we know so many turn a blind eye because the money keeps rolling in and that’s what it comes down to

VeniVidiWeeWee · 26/07/2023 22:58

HRTQueen · 26/07/2023 22:48

Over 30 men over the past few years have come forward with claims

yet these 4 particular men are apparently confused over what happened

yeah right

another powerful wealthy man with influence gets away again. We see men being aggressive on video, we have the same stories over and over again, we know so many turn a blind eye because the money keeps rolling in and that’s what it comes down to

Gosh.

It must be great being omniscient.

You know more than a jury who heard all the evidence.

I despair.

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