Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

This is the perhaps worst thing I've read. God almighty.

157 replies

HolyHellaciousHeck · 25/07/2023 17:59

[Massive content warning for abuse and child death]

This story is appalling. Every part of it is worse than the previous part. This poor, poor girl. What a horrible short life and awful death she had. God almighty.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66300209

Amber Niven

Brother found guilty of Amber Gibson's murder

Connor Gibson has been convicted of sexually assaulting and killing his 16-year-old sister in 2021.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66300209

OP posts:
familieseh · 26/07/2023 01:28

What happened to this darling girl is terrible for certain.
Unfortunately it is far from the worst thing I've read

I'm a therapist, I've worked for the police and I've also volunteered with LAC (I hate that initialism so much, many children in care have commented that it sounds as 'lack', as if they're 'lacking' something.

The British 'care' system is disgustingly bad. I do not have a limited vocabulary but that is the best I can say about it. It's shocking.
This sort of thing is allowed to happen.

Someone commented upthread 'why was she not still with her Foster parents ' quite possibly because they weren't allowed to keep her. Had she been their biological child, any typical teen behaviour would have been shrugged off by SS. Being her their Foster child, 'you can't keep her because of (said behaviour)'.

I've read the serious case review involving Iain Watkins. I've looked at many true crime cases as a sociologist, my ex had her children removed and I went through a slow realisation that her children were damaged beyond repair and would turn to crime, her youngest turned to selling herself. I couldn't stop it even with all the love in the world.

I WISH this was the worst thing I ever read but very sadly, it is far from it.

R.I.P to the child who was dealt a very bad hand from the start.

And yes, I agree with all the 'fucking men' posters, although I do not lump my great male friends and colleagues in with them.

LostThePot · 26/07/2023 02:07

I had just read the article before coming into mumsnet and I knew this thread would be about poor Amber.

Truly horrific.

RIP Amber

Diminishingreturns99 · 26/07/2023 03:01

Of all the things we should feel the most ashamed about in the uk is our so-called care system which is failing so many vulnerable children, teens and young adults. Surely no other area of society is more deserving of proper resources and investment?

anonymousxoxo · 26/07/2023 06:12

Stories like this is why I’m in favour of the death penalty.

MrsJackRackham · 26/07/2023 08:00

I'm local and the rumours are that the brother had routinely abused Amber, she was about to tell and that's why he killed her. Might just be speculation though. Poor wee lamb. I walk my dogs in that area and I always say a wee prayer for her.

heartofglass23 · 26/07/2023 08:00

Diminishingreturns99 · 26/07/2023 03:01

Of all the things we should feel the most ashamed about in the uk is our so-called care system which is failing so many vulnerable children, teens and young adults. Surely no other area of society is more deserving of proper resources and investment?

Throwing money won't necessarily help.

What we need is for dangerous men to be kept locked up to prevent them from harming vulnerable women and girls.

Amber's place in the children's home likely cost around £800 pwk if it was council run, could be more than double that if private. But her costly placement didn't protect her.

There will be a significant case review into this which we need to learn lessons from.

Damnloginpopup · 26/07/2023 08:10

Work in the sector and, like me, you probably won't be remotely shocked by this. I can't count the amount of people I've worked with who could have been any of the people involved.

Utter depravity. Evil. Another day in the underbelly.

wayyour · 26/07/2023 10:19

Diminishingreturns99 · 26/07/2023 03:01

Of all the things we should feel the most ashamed about in the uk is our so-called care system which is failing so many vulnerable children, teens and young adults. Surely no other area of society is more deserving of proper resources and investment?

Well said. It's shocking the care system in this country.

missyounot · 26/07/2023 10:46

This is so tragic and disturbing. The poor child was abused from birth to death - and even after her death.

And I feel sure there are many children and young people out there living a hell similar to that Amber endured - inadequate/abusive birth parents, bouncing between foster families and group homes - it is a terrible life and I can't help but think there must be a better way.

I know this will be an unpopular opinion but I also feel compassion for Connor. We know that it is vital for a child to be nurtured especially during their first 1000 days - or 3 years - as that's when neuro pathways are formed and in essence, the child's character and competence are formed. We also know that Connor had 5 years with his birth parents, so 2 years longer than Amber, and that his father is an extremely violent sex offender. I suggest that Connor's troubles were created very early in his life and that he needed extremely robust support throughout his childhood and teen years, probably forever.

The foster parents quoted sound like wonderful people and I can only imagine what they fielded during their years with the siblings. I also read that Connor was in a special school for young people with mental and emotional problems so it isn't as though he was overlooked, he just needed so much more than was available. I can't help but wonder if he has a brain injury as is so common in violent offenders.

I get no joy or satisfaction from reports describing him as evil etc. As the foster parents said, they have one child buried and another in prison. It is a terrible tragedy all round.

I can understand Amber wanting to meet up with her big brother even if it was considered dangerous; she was so young and essentially alone in the world. He was her only blood relative. When you're young, you keep hoping and imagining that things will get better.

Sugarfree23 · 26/07/2023 10:49

MrsJackRackham · 26/07/2023 08:00

I'm local and the rumours are that the brother had routinely abused Amber, she was about to tell and that's why he killed her. Might just be speculation though. Poor wee lamb. I walk my dogs in that area and I always say a wee prayer for her.

It was my first guess as to why the foster Dad said they couldn't be left alone together, and it would also explain why she was in a children's home after being with foster carers for years.

Bless her.

watcherintherye · 26/07/2023 10:55

When you're young, you keep hoping and imagining that things will get better.

Sorry, I know it’s not the point you’re making, but that hope never goes, when you’re in a bad situation, even when you get old…

RIP poor girl.

Diminishingreturns99 · 26/07/2023 10:58

heartofglass23 · 26/07/2023 08:00

Throwing money won't necessarily help.

What we need is for dangerous men to be kept locked up to prevent them from harming vulnerable women and girls.

Amber's place in the children's home likely cost around £800 pwk if it was council run, could be more than double that if private. But her costly placement didn't protect her.

There will be a significant case review into this which we need to learn lessons from.

We need the care system to be better resourced as it is stretched beyond capacity AND we need dangerous men locked up. The two are not mutually exclusive.

pickledandpuzzled · 26/07/2023 11:06

There is a shortage of foster placements and resources.

When we fostered there want enough therapeutic support. There wasn't enough flexibility of thought. It was all or nothing. We could have kept ours if they'd been able to be at all creative about managing the situation.

Siblings are extra hard because each one may need the equivalent of one to one, but doesn't get it because of the sibling's needs. They need to be together, but also separate.

I wish we had smaller, family style group homes where extra adults come in to support the dc, while it still feels like a home not a residential.

usedtobeasizeten · 26/07/2023 11:22

MrsJackRackham · 26/07/2023 08:00

I'm local and the rumours are that the brother had routinely abused Amber, she was about to tell and that's why he killed her. Might just be speculation though. Poor wee lamb. I walk my dogs in that area and I always say a wee prayer for her.

….and yet it is reported she was excited to meet up with him.

pickledandpuzzled · 26/07/2023 12:43

Trauma bonds

She probably never stopped hoping for a loving birth family.

Royaly82 · 26/07/2023 15:31

And the disgusting pig of a man that gave (tried to give) his perverted son an alibi. All these dirty scummy men should be locked away for LIFE
This poor sweet girl never stood a chance 😢

DancingDaisyLdy · 26/07/2023 15:57

It’s too horrific for words. Even foster parents in some cases can’t be trusted, my own mother and another foster girl were sexually abused by their foster father whilst in care.

Carlosi456 · 26/07/2023 18:49

Well, thank you so much for sharing that incident further.

Perky1 · 26/07/2023 19:44

My God the depravity is sickening. Poor girl, rest in peace.

Jack80 · 26/07/2023 19:47

It’s so sad and horrific

ladyluck13 · 26/07/2023 20:24

Ugh, this is why I don't like men as a species, yes there are individuals who are brilliant but as a whole.. no..that poor girl..#notallmen yes, but way too many, as is obvious by this case..

Picoloangel · 26/07/2023 20:53

My reaction to this was exactly the same. I’ve worked in the criminal justice system my whole career and am sadly almost unshockable or at least I thought I was. I have no words for this, so sad on so many levels.

Redragtoabull · 26/07/2023 21:26

Just men are evil! Wake up MNs

Trylessonslearned · 26/07/2023 23:28

Jesus! Horrific