Overheard something quite personal

[User5653218]

I was walking along the road and I could hear someone in a parked car having a chat on a hands free speaker. She had all her windows open and the speaker was really loud.

She was a carer for a care company, logo on the car. I couldn't really make out what the person in the car was saying but the person on the speakerphone could be heard clear as day by anyone nearby. They were obviously discussing the clients they had visited this morning and the speakerphone person said "when I went into Mary at number 14 this morning she had shat herself in her chair again" then they both started laughing.

Mary is not her real name, it is a very distinctive name, so I knew straight away who they were talking about. She's an elderly lady I know quite well. She would be mortified if she knew anyone walking past that car at that time knew that about her. And the car was parked just round the corner from her house so there's a good chance that anyone walking past might work out who they were talking about.

I stopped at the car and said "excuse me, I could hear really clearly what was being said on your speaker, I know the person you are laughing about."

The woman said "oh ffs, we're just having a laugh. Do you fancy wiping old women's bums after they've been sat in their own shit for god knows how long?"

And I said "No I wouldn't, I'm glad you're able to do it, but maybe you could just close your window or not use your speaker, then no-one would hear you"

She said "oh fuck off".

So I left.

Should I report them to their agency? I don't want to get them in trouble, they do do a job many people couldn't, but I know Mary would be devastated if she knew I'd heard that. I'm so angry for her. She's such a lovely lady, she tries so hard to keep her independence and dignity despite all her health problems.

I toyed with telling her, but it would just upset her and I'm not sure how easy it would be for her to find alternative care anyway, there's not much to choose from round our way. And I don't know if she would then be too embarrassed to speak to me. She doesn't have family, if she had a son or daughter I might have spoken to them.

But it makes me so angry that these women were laughing about her and that they will still be doing her personal care. Am I over-reacting? Were they just letting off steam after their early morning shift? It is a tough job, I have no doubt it's not fun to start your day with that. But that is their job and their clients can't help it. I'm sure they don't want to be like this either.

What would you do? I'm thinking I'll tell the agency but not Mary. Or is it enough that I spoke to the person in the car and maybe they'll think about it in future, even if they were rude to me at the time?

I guess I could do a semi-anonymous report where I just say that I overheard some chat in a car and could they please remind their staff to be discreet when having conversations in a public place, rather than give details?

Christ, that's a hell of a leap.

The OP doesn't even have to give details of who they were or what client they were talking about. What's more likely is that the company will send out a clear reminder to its staff that they should absolutely not be breaching clients' privacy like this by chatting about them on the phone in public places.

OP, you should definitely tell the company. It's totally unacceptable that they're behaving like this. I've been a carer myself and of course it's a difficult job and of course it's not fun cleaning people up after they've had an accident, but that absolutely doesn't mean it's OK to breach their privacy and insult their dignity in public like that.

Report it and fully, I used to be a carer myself and would never have spoken about one of my clients like that, it shows a huge amount of disrespect. Also she was verbally abusive to you!! Carers don't get paid much and the majority do it because they want to help people (in my experience) it's not a excuse to talk in such a derogatory way.

I’d report them. Her lack of class and respect may just leach into the way she treats her clients. In fact, I’d be convinced it would.

I own a care company and I would want to know about this behaviour. We are not all bad (we are Outstanding in 4/5 standards) and the sector won't and can't improve whilst this kind of behaviour is ignored and unchallenged. It is entirely unacceptable. If they don't take your complaint seriously, then you report to CQC.

The worker may have needed a vent but she breached confidentiality and that shoudl be reported.

Absolutely report. Wouldn’t want her looking after my relative.

OP is not disputing that. She's pointing out it doesn't need to be broadcast on speaker phone. There's letting off steam and there's basic respect for clients.

What does the carer expect Mary to do if she's immobile?

Yes, I'd tell the company. They aren't cut out for that job. An ability to wipe a bum isn't the most important attribute of a carer.

They have done something wrong.

The key word is PRIVATE.

This conversation was not done privately. It could be overhead in public.

Just because they are doing a tricky job and Otis a lower paid jib doesn't mean they are exempt from the normal rules of protecting a client's privacy, safeguarding and just common decency.

Report it.

Forget this nonsense about "they're doing a job not everyone can". I'm a support worker, 7 years on the job, with personal care roles in some of that. I've done intimate personal care, and it's not nice. It's challenging and the work is not paid well enough. Carers are not given enough respect in society. All of that is true, BUT, we care/support workers are not angels. We don't get a free pass to blurt out sensitive, personal information out loud in public about the people we've been entrusted to care for. We're here to protect their dignity, safety and personhood. A lot of people I've worked with have been utter dickheads. The world of care work is full of people who really do not care, sadly. You can get a caring job as easily as a job in asda (I don't say that to denigrate either job, but to point out that it's not a vocation you have to claw your way into or prove yourself at).

REPORT THEM.

And ignore that ridiculous first comment about "what if Mary dies". So "Mary" should just have to put up with whatever nasty pieces of work deign to care for her? No. The agency will replace carers, if they see fit, in the blink of an eye.

Also, any decent person would be mortified at being called out for breaching confidentiality. Not become aggressive. Doesn't bode well for working with vulnerable adults.

Just to clear up- it was the woman on speakerphone who said it, not the woman in the car. So she probably didn't know she could be overheard. Not that that makes it any better. And sounds like I'm excusing shit behaviour.

Just when I feel sure I'm doing the right thing someone else comments that it was just banter and they were just letting off steam.

I'm away out with the dog now, clear my head.

I wouldn't tell Mary but would report, 100%. People deserved to be treated with dignity. My family member currently has carers helping him as he is end of life with terminal cancer and whilst they may want to talk to their coworkers how they feel, fine, they should be aware they cannot say that kind of information so publicly and loudly. Hopefully they get a disciplinary or warning

100% report them. Totally inappropriate and worse they couldn't see how inappropriate they were being. Their response makes it worse, literally no empathy. Disgusting individuals. Poor Mary. The company won't do anything though. We went through a number of different agencies when my mum was havjng home care. The one thing they had in common was being run poorly. The whole model requires patients to be charged as much as possible whilst paying carers as little as possible. Whilst some carers are excellent they are in the minority due to the way the industry has been monetised. Even the good ones barely have time to carry out the tasks.

I've worked in care, I wouldn't want to be associated with any carers that behave like that. Tell the care company, so they can remind them about treating clients with respect and confidentiality. If they quit after being told that this behaviour is not acceptable then they shouldn't be working in care.

Just because they are doing a tricky job and Otis a lower paid jib doesn't mean they are exempt from the normal rules of protecting a client's privacy, safeguarding and just common decency

I can't get over how low some people's standards are for decent respectful behaviour when it comes to elder care.

Ah yes Mumsnet at it's finest

"Who cares about Mary's confidential details being discussed loudly in public where she was definitely recognised by someone who knows her. Think of the poor underpaid carer who might get sacked for behaving openly like a cunt. Boo hoo".

Sounds to me like this nasty little bitch doesn't deserve to work as a carer. It's the Lidl situation all over again. Lets make sure we look after the dregs of our society who abuse the elderly quite openly because they might have to face the consequences of their shitty actions if you report them.

🙄

Yes, report. If they lack empathy to make fun of a dependant old lady, I am not sure they are treating her well or with respect.

Absolutely. The standard for support/care for vulnerable people is on the fucking ground.

Just because they are doing a tricky job and Otis a lower paid jib doesn't mean they are exempt from the normal rules of protecting a client's privacy, safeguarding and just common decency

Exactly this.

I think that is pretty horrible, that entire interaction.

I would really like to hear what other people working in care think because I'd love to try and justify why someone would behave like this. It's upsetting to think someone caring for vulnerable people could be so vulgar and unkind.

A big problem at the moment is UC applicants being pushed into care work that they just don’t want to do. It’s been suggested to me and others I know - there are so many vacancies and it’s pushed and sanctions threatened etc so there’s a lot of people being pushed to do this type of job and they just don’t want to be there so act like this. It’s about time caring was a well respected and well paid job not something people are basically forced into as then the clients suffer

So you'd do that loudly on speaker phone in the street, while the families' neighbours were walking by? Really?

Nobody's policing what you say to your colleagues in private. Of course you're going to have a moan about work sometimes. There's some major gallows humour in my job. But we keep it private, because we're not total cunts.

The issue here is that these carers were loudly talking and laughing about an elderly woman's incontinence IN FRONT OF OTHER PEOPLE. Would you want people laughing about your private, embarrassing health problems and humiliating you in front of your neighbours in the street? No you fucking wouldn't.

Just when I feel sure I'm doing the right thing someone else comments that it was just banter and they were just letting off steam

'Banter' is just an excuse for 'being a dick.' It's what stupid teenage boys call it.

Absolutely this.