Overheard something quite personal

[User5653218]

I was walking along the road and I could hear someone in a parked car having a chat on a hands free speaker. She had all her windows open and the speaker was really loud.

She was a carer for a care company, logo on the car. I couldn't really make out what the person in the car was saying but the person on the speakerphone could be heard clear as day by anyone nearby. They were obviously discussing the clients they had visited this morning and the speakerphone person said "when I went into Mary at number 14 this morning she had shat herself in her chair again" then they both started laughing.

Mary is not her real name, it is a very distinctive name, so I knew straight away who they were talking about. She's an elderly lady I know quite well. She would be mortified if she knew anyone walking past that car at that time knew that about her. And the car was parked just round the corner from her house so there's a good chance that anyone walking past might work out who they were talking about.

I stopped at the car and said "excuse me, I could hear really clearly what was being said on your speaker, I know the person you are laughing about."

The woman said "oh ffs, we're just having a laugh. Do you fancy wiping old women's bums after they've been sat in their own shit for god knows how long?"

And I said "No I wouldn't, I'm glad you're able to do it, but maybe you could just close your window or not use your speaker, then no-one would hear you"

She said "oh fuck off".

So I left.

Should I report them to their agency? I don't want to get them in trouble, they do do a job many people couldn't, but I know Mary would be devastated if she knew I'd heard that. I'm so angry for her. She's such a lovely lady, she tries so hard to keep her independence and dignity despite all her health problems.

I toyed with telling her, but it would just upset her and I'm not sure how easy it would be for her to find alternative care anyway, there's not much to choose from round our way. And I don't know if she would then be too embarrassed to speak to me. She doesn't have family, if she had a son or daughter I might have spoken to them.

But it makes me so angry that these women were laughing about her and that they will still be doing her personal care. Am I over-reacting? Were they just letting off steam after their early morning shift? It is a tough job, I have no doubt it's not fun to start your day with that. But that is their job and their clients can't help it. I'm sure they don't want to be like this either.

What would you do? I'm thinking I'll tell the agency but not Mary. Or is it enough that I spoke to the person in the car and maybe they'll think about it in future, even if they were rude to me at the time?

I guess I could do a semi-anonymous report where I just say that I overheard some chat in a car and could they please remind their staff to be discreet when having conversations in a public place, rather than give details?

Just because the job is difficult, doesn’t mean they have the right to discuss/laugh about the ‘responsibilities’ in public or disrespectfully just to make life easier for them.

Dignity is underestimated and especially to our elderly.

Im afraid she hasn’t carried out her job correctly and to speak to anyone addressing this, in this way, needs correcting and addressing.

Hard to do but report for the sake of any others in care.

But you would support them in treating ‘Mary’ with a total lack of respect?

I Couldn’t do that to someone.

Shame the carer couldn't come across as someone who would treat their clients with dignity.

And please don't tell me about letting off steam.

Settings for, VERY seriously

I worked (and qualified) as a nurse for over 20 years and can confirm that wasn’t an example of black humour, that was quite clearly disrespectful and they need to look for alternative employment.

Please report her, I used to be a carer and would never have dreamed of laughing at one of the elderly people in my care. That is disrespectful and unprofessional, as well as absolutely disgusting!

If you told your manager to fuck off you’d get a verbal warning then written then sacked if you continued as it wouldn’t be tolerated.

im pleased you reported them as that isn’t on if she want to let of steam as folk are saying she should of done it at home not in full view of Mary’s street were neighbours would hear and did.

I'm a carer. Please report to the agency it is completely unacceptable and needs to be dealt with. I don't know any colleagues who would speak about their clients like this.

Report her, she has no business working with vulnerable people
”blowing off steam” thing is not an excuse to be a nasty person
what is funny about an elderly person releasing on themselves?
I think you were meant to hear that conversation for a reason
and who knows what other things she could be doing when she thinks people aren’t watching her

think of how you would feel if they were talking about your mum like that

What an awful thing for a carer to do! I can see you're feeling torn about this situation. Both of the people in that conversation are in the wrong. Patients or clients whatever they are labeled recieving personnal care have the right to dignity and privacy. Both these things have been breached in this situation.

Talking about a client like that and having a laugh at her expense is not supporting her dignity. I fear for the culture of that organisation and what that will mean for how care is provided.

Information shared about by staff providing care should be proportionate and appropriate (ie only as much as is necessary to provide care) and confidential (ie not shared beyone those who need to know). Your friend was named and identified in the conversation, information was shared that was NOT necessary for her care, and the information was shared about her in a way that anyone to hear.

The lack of respect shown would also lead me to be concerned about the care itself. Is it trustworthy?

Care staff are rotated, or not available all the time so I wouldn't read too much that. It is likely that the company providing it is one of a few who have contracts with the local authority and not the only option for your friend.

Telling a member of the public who questions their behaviour to fuck off is also really worrying. That person seems either emboldened or defensive. Either way it would cause me concern about their abiltiy to provide care.

So, I know you're really feeling the pinch here, but I think having reported it to the company you should follow up. Call them back and ask them to have someone senior (google the company and if it's local ask for the chief exec, if it's national ask for the regional manager or similar) call you back and tell you what they have done about your complaint. Tell them if you don't hear back you will contact director of social services. And of course if what they tell you is not satisfactory call social services anyway. Bear in mind the care could be commissioned by the local authority or the NHS, if it's the NHS you might need to email the chief nurse at your local NHS Integrated Care Board.

I can't understand this point.

If she stole from Mary, she might lose her job, but would you consider that a line that shouldn't be crossed?

If she's short with Mary, makes her feel dirty and a burden by tutting and sighing as she cleans up, is that ok?

What if she's rough, uses cold water, dries her unkindly?

This is someone who knows this woman has been sitting for some time in her own faeces - maybe she could be escalating that, pointing out the need for an earlier visit or an overnight sitter. She hasn't raised it as a concern, she has laughed about it with a colleague and then given further derogatory identifiable information to a stranger.

If the carer is disciplined, warned, has to work under supervision, undertake further training etc as deemed fit by her employers after an investigation into the allegations of unacceptable behaviour, that's a good thing isn't it?

Or are we so concerned about people earning money that there are no standards, no reasonable expectations of behaviour and professionalism when working with vulnerable people?

We all have a responsibility to speak up for those who can't. If I overheard school staff loudly discussing identifiable children from an identifiable school in public, I'm sure I would report it. In fact I did, I saw a teacher humiliate a child in front of their peers stood right by a minibus with the school's name on it. He used the child's full name. I both rang and emailed the school and received an appropriately reassuring and apologetic reply. I was that child's voice. I considered how the parents might send that child off every day and have no idea this was what his experience was, and how I would want the passing stranger to step in and speak up.

If this carer is subject to any negative outcome as a result of her unprofessional behaviour, the responsibility lies with her. It's not for the rest of us to be so glad she's got a job we don't want that we say there is no expected way to behave whilst doing it.

Obviously I would never discuss work in the street with windows open, but I have spoken to colleagues about work over the phone before. I’ve always assumed it was in private and it wouldn’t even occur to me someone might have me on speakerphone loud enough to be heard in the street! Obviously that was unacceptable, but it may not have been intentional on the part of the carer who was not present and on the phone.

When OP politely pointed out that she could be heard down the street, the carer told her to FOff. She didn't care.

Stop making excuses.

It would have been mortifying for Mary to hear.

It upset OP, Mary's friend. And she heard them.

It has horrified most of the people on this thread many who are carers.

I'm not sure what more you want.

Good night.

I didn’t get a warning of any kind, on both occasions the headteacher apologised to me. The first first occasion was when one of my students was seriously unwell in hospital and we had just been told they weren’t expecting him to make the night and headteacher was chasing me about paperwork that seemed unimportant to me at the time. The other occasion was when we were very short staffed, I’d picked up lots of evening/ weekend overtime to support a residential student who was having a very hard time and was displaying very challenging behaviour, I was working with him every day in school because most other staff were refusing to work with him after he’d injured most of his core team and I was told I couldn’t get any PPA for about the third week in a row because we were too short staffed, I was burnt out and needed time to catch up on everything I was behind on. Obviously I don’t make a habit of telling her to fuck off, if I did it as standard I expect I would get a warning but the head understands it is an emotionally difficult job and that sometimes people do snap.

This! If she had been decent about it when you said to her then I would have left it but she’s horrible and you don’t want someone like her in that job.

Yes the carer shouldn’t have spoken to OP that way. Was that the main issue or was it that she’d been speaking about mary that way?

I'd probably let my local Safeguarding team know about the lack of care, and let the Care Company know there's been a DATA BREACH. They have to report every. Single. One. Of those so are more likely to listen to you...

Again, no. Not okay.

Mm.

I probably wouldn’t tell somebody to fuck off, but that’s not really in my personality.

You've said in a earlier post that you have told your manager to fuck off ?

If I was at work I would be professional toward a stranger but if I was out of work in a public place and moaned to a colleague about one of my students, eg: ‘Jimmy was hard work today he kept getting upset and stripping’ and someone approached me and said actually they are Jimmy’s neighbour and I really ought to be more careful etc I don’t think I would apologise to them though, for all I know they are lying about knowing them and I wouldn’t want to potentially get into a conversation about a student.

The fact is you don't know who it is, so you remain professional. You don't appear to have very good social skills if you are telling people to fuck off simply on the basis that they maybe lying because you don't know who they are.

You are reading things into my posts that I have not said and do not think. I think everybody who works a stressful emotionally draining job can snap sometimes, I certainly have and so have most if not all of my colleagues. It’s nothing to do with intelligence, everybody can only be emotionally resilient up to a certain point and everybody can become overwhelmed and act in a way they regret afterwards if pushed.

If you overheard a doctor in similar circumstances and you approached them , would you expect them to tell you to fuck off and mind your own business ? I suspect that you'd have higher standards for a doctor. Why are you defending such poor behaviour other than because you think care workers are not capable of understanding appropriate behaviour. Again offensive and patronising.

GDPR is a care basic. Speaking in such a way where they can be overheard is an absolute no no. I’d certainly report it.

That said, the black humour in a staff room at work might sound disrespectful to someone looking in, but on the tail end of our 14 hour day we’re just letting it all out in private. Don’t equate it necessarily with a dislike of our job or residents.

I LOVE my job but sometimes it’s exhausting and emotional. We make shit jokes.

They won’t be fired, don’t worry about that. It’ll be a telling off and reminder about GDPR. We have a shortage of carers in this country in excess of 70000 and no one wants the job. They can’t afford to lose people. Sadly, not even the crap ones.

I have to say I’m surprised you haven’t been sacked

you can be burnt out, pissed off etc but telling your boss aka manager to fuck off isn’t on ever, first time that’s a maybe but the others nope.

Actually, my boss invites us to vent at her rather than bottle it up.

Oh my goodness! This makes me really upset and emotional. I was a carer for 2.5 years in residential, nursing and palliative care then went into support work for another 2.5 years. No it isn't easy and it is not always very nice however, if I were you I'd 100 percent tell the agency. These so called carers don't give a toss because if they did they wouldn't be laughing or even joking about this poor woman's situation. And for God's sake turn your speaker/hands free OFF. Get these nasty careless women out the job. They do not deserve to be paid a wage. I really, really hope Mary* is doing OK and is looked after by people who genuinely care and don't male fun of and embarrass her 😥😥😥😥😥❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

@dcthatsme there is so much wrong with what you’ve said (which I’ve just read in the post where @WildUnchartedWaters had also pointed this out) that I hardly know where to begin.

A ‘modicum of dignity’ is NOT acceptable. Maximum dignity is what carers are required to provide, are trained to provide (mandatory training) and clients have a right to expect.

”Decompressing’ is not what this carer was doing. She was in fact breaking very many rules as well as showing real cruelty and lack of empathy.

”Stepping back” and “letting go” is really not want any decent person should or could do in OP’s shoes/situation.

The need to receive personal care and continence assistance is not a “crazy situation”. It’s a standard, every day requirement of a care role. A LOT of us will need this one day.

Laughter and mockery is NOT ok in this situation. How can you think it is? “Stress and unpleasantness” is not what a competent carer would experience as a result of carrying out an important key part of their job.

I am knackered and signed out of MN in disgust at some of the comments on this thread but was compelled to return to say this. I realise not everyone has experience of the care industry but I’m still horrified at some of the blasé attitudes to this description of gross misconduct. It breaks so many rules, official and moral with the blatant GDPR breaches being that beast of them.

You do know a great many of us here today reading these posts will need our backsides cleaned for us one day day, right?? You may as well get over this and accept it and whilst doing so, think on the fact that if and when you we need this type of personal care, that you will also have a right to expect it will be carried out with competence and compassion and that you not be cruelly and publicly ridiculed at any time as a result. Or even privately ridiculed. That’s not ok either. Can’t believe I need to point it out.

This carer disgusts me. I really hope she loses her job.

That’s different though as your invited to.