Overheard something quite personal

[User5653218]

I was walking along the road and I could hear someone in a parked car having a chat on a hands free speaker. She had all her windows open and the speaker was really loud.

She was a carer for a care company, logo on the car. I couldn't really make out what the person in the car was saying but the person on the speakerphone could be heard clear as day by anyone nearby. They were obviously discussing the clients they had visited this morning and the speakerphone person said "when I went into Mary at number 14 this morning she had shat herself in her chair again" then they both started laughing.

Mary is not her real name, it is a very distinctive name, so I knew straight away who they were talking about. She's an elderly lady I know quite well. She would be mortified if she knew anyone walking past that car at that time knew that about her. And the car was parked just round the corner from her house so there's a good chance that anyone walking past might work out who they were talking about.

I stopped at the car and said "excuse me, I could hear really clearly what was being said on your speaker, I know the person you are laughing about."

The woman said "oh ffs, we're just having a laugh. Do you fancy wiping old women's bums after they've been sat in their own shit for god knows how long?"

And I said "No I wouldn't, I'm glad you're able to do it, but maybe you could just close your window or not use your speaker, then no-one would hear you"

She said "oh fuck off".

So I left.

Should I report them to their agency? I don't want to get them in trouble, they do do a job many people couldn't, but I know Mary would be devastated if she knew I'd heard that. I'm so angry for her. She's such a lovely lady, she tries so hard to keep her independence and dignity despite all her health problems.

I toyed with telling her, but it would just upset her and I'm not sure how easy it would be for her to find alternative care anyway, there's not much to choose from round our way. And I don't know if she would then be too embarrassed to speak to me. She doesn't have family, if she had a son or daughter I might have spoken to them.

But it makes me so angry that these women were laughing about her and that they will still be doing her personal care. Am I over-reacting? Were they just letting off steam after their early morning shift? It is a tough job, I have no doubt it's not fun to start your day with that. But that is their job and their clients can't help it. I'm sure they don't want to be like this either.

What would you do? I'm thinking I'll tell the agency but not Mary. Or is it enough that I spoke to the person in the car and maybe they'll think about it in future, even if they were rude to me at the time?

I guess I could do a semi-anonymous report where I just say that I overheard some chat in a car and could they please remind their staff to be discreet when having conversations in a public place, rather than give details?

And despite possibly being the best carer ever, she's put Mary at a security risk for starters.

I wouldn't tell Mary. I expect she would be heartbroken.

I would tell the company. The girl sounded very uncaring so I'd have to wonder how they treat their clients. She shouldn't have spoken to you like that - in a clearly marked company vehicle too.

Maybe the girl is completely in the wrong line of work if she feels this way about helping people.

@User5653218 well done!
Clearly your call has made a difference and I hope this will carry on.
I also hope those women have learnt the meaning of confidentiality.

For those who say it’s a light banter etc…
Imagine you’re in hospital. You ate soiling yourself, vomiting. They need to do some procedure that test your modesty to say the least.
And tte nurse looking after you start to talk about you in public. They explain about the procedure you’ve had, how undignified it was. They talk about you soiling yourself and having to clean you up. They use your name and your NDN are nearby.

Is that ok too?
Or is it only ok to laugh at elderly people?
Is it ok to break confidentiality on your health issues or is it only when you are talking about elderly people? (Faecal incontinence is an illness btw!)

Thank you. I've often wondered why anyone would bother to respond before they've read everything an OP has written. It's such a waste of time (and annoying) to read a response and realize this person never even bothered keeping up.

Many years ago, I used to work weekend days in a nursing home. There was one lady who was bedridden and doubly incontinent who had had a very bad stroke. Every morning she would be covered literally from neck to toe in partially dried liquid faeces, and her carer (me at the weekends) started their day somehow cleaning her up, and changing her sheets, on their own - well I did it on my own, I don't know about the carer during the week.

Of course I didn't like doing the job, but I only ever felt really sorry for her and didn't find anything in her situation in the least bit funny - I don't see how any reasonable human being in that situation could find it funny. The poor lady would spend the whole time I was cleaning her, apologising, and of course rejust kept on telling her that it was fine and not a problem, that it wasn't her fault and that it could happen to any of us if we got ill. Although that actual task was unpleasant I felt privileged to be able to help her in such an intimate way.

Please do not tell 'Mary' herself @User5653218, as I am sure that she would feel very upset by it, and never trust any future carer to not be feeling the same way. If I was the client that would make me feel literally suicidal, as her situation is probably already pretty horrible. But I would tell the company the "carer" worked for, and I would expect both her and the one on the phone to be sacked. The company then needs to be more thorough in both it's interviewing techniques, and it's training afterwards.

As an aside, it was approximately 50 years ago that I had that part-time job, I was about 20 years old, and I wasn't given any manual handing training at all - I'm not sure if it even existed in the UK at that time? 20 years later, and working in a different part of the country as an alternating evening or morning community carer - I either got them ready for bed and then tucked in, or up in the morning, washed, dressed, and often breakfasted too (we were only given half an hour to do all of that, and of course I always chatted to the client and never let him or her feel rushed), so I was always running late! But I had at least had some basic manual handling training before being let loose on the clients, unfortunately that didn't always relate well to the actual job. I still had patients that I had to somehow help keep them standing upright with one hand whilst I washed them intimately with my other hand - as this was in the clients own home they often only had tiny bathrooms that wouldn't fit a chair in, but they wanted to be washed in their bathrooms, not their bedroom.

I am now so disabled that I am wheelchair bound and need my own carer. I am very lucky at the moment that my carer is a close family member, but I am also positive that it was those earlier 'caring' jobs that led to my disabling arthritis in my back. My other conditions probably can't be blamed on those jobs!

No I absolutely wouldn’t but it’s not my mother etc and like I said in another post maybe op could speak to Mary and gauge whether or not she’s happy with her carers and take it from their. Fact is people are fallible and it’s a tough job and seriously poorly paid and let’s face it so many people are quite willing to allow carers to look after their parents because they don’t won’t to. Op doesn’t have to rock a boat that might not need rocking!

I strongly suspect some people who've posted on this thread will feel very differently about this kind of thing when they are old/infirm themselves.

It's the ones who are saying the lady didnt hear. Yeah, that makes it fine.

Perhaps they could jump onto the many threads where women have found messages on their partners phone ahout them and tell them the same?

As is aid earlier, I wonder the response if I sat in a public place shouting ahout their child. Cause they didnt hear right.

Absolutely tell the company. That is deeply unprofessional and if I was Mary or her relatives, I would want a different carer immediately

This is disgusting. The problem with care being so poorly paid is that basically anyone can get a job, even those who are entirely unsuitable. I have had days looking after people, you wouldn't believe & yes light relief & banter is needed, but never at anyone's expense! People are quick to forget they may need help one day & I'd hope the people doing it have the decency not to gossip about me in public, in my local area and on loudspeaker. There is no excuse.

User5653218 you did absolutely the right thing ...I'm a nurse everyone in health care has bad days but a person should never ever be treated like this .any health care worker that treats someone like Mary with such a level of disrespect should not be doing the job . Yes it's not pleasant what needs to be done sometimes but it could end up being any of us needing that care and compassion at any time. It's hard to call out bad behaviour but I'm so glad you did ..Thank you

But she wasn’t ripping the piss out of her client? Her colleague said, ‘Mary had shit on the chair again’ and they both laughed, it could have been nervous laughter, it could have been laughing at the absurdity of the job, it could have been laughing at her colleague’s misfortune for having to deal with shit at the first call of the day knowing it’ll be the first of many, it could have been laughter because Mary has a cunt of a husband who loves that chair and they were laughing at the fact he’d be upset by it. Nothing the OP said make it sound like it was raucous, mean laughter or that anything derogatory was said. Everyone on this thread must be reading a different conversation to me because nothing the OP wrote equates to taking the piss or mocking or abusing etc, maybe it’s because I’m autistic and not good at reading between the lines but there is nothing in the conversation OP has written out that is an actual mean comment about Mary, how are you concluding they were ‘ripping the piss’ out of Mary from the OP? Saying she shit in the chair is just a fact, surely?

So glad you reported this! You did do the right thing. People who feel like that shouldn't be working in care. Maybe she needs a break or a change in career but the people who are being cared for are so vulnerable. It's deeply upsetting to think things like this might just pass I commented and unnoticed. Caring is very hard and really poorly paid but saying that about someone loud enough for passers by to hear... You did the right thing

If you're autistic I can see your stance here, but no. I'm sorry. You're completely wrong.

Despite others saying leave it be, what if carers quit, etc- this is not the sort of person I would like looking after my parents when they will need it, or indeed myself when the time comes.
We all get old, so why allow this behaviour to continue? Doesn't bode well for future generations if this is allowed in such a profession. Offload by all means, but privately. This was publicly, was easy to identify the client and is downright uncaring 'care'.
The worker should buck their ideas up and face the consequences as laid out by their employers. And to abuse a member of the public when representing a company is unprofessional also. Definitely report them if it were me witnessing it.

No it isn’t. It’s abusive. Against every ethic in social care. Why should it be tolerated? Is this what we want for our elderly folk?

Absolutely tell the agency. Where is patient confidentiality care and compassion? If this was on a hospital setting and a carer or nurse spoke about a patient in that tone they would be formally reprimanded. Yes it's a hard job but the job title is CARER!!

@MolkosTeenageAngst yes you are missing the fact it was ‘banter’. Not a nervous laugh, or laughing about the job. I get that it might feel like reading between the lines but unfortunately, that’s how it is (nervous laughter would also have sounded different iyswim). These women, from the type if laugh and tte exchange they had (aka context) were having a laugh at the expense of a vulnerable person.

Plus, they are bound to some level of confidentiality anyway so giving the name of the person loud and clear was a NO-NO anyway.

They didn’t respect any of that.

Please call the CQC (care Quality commission) 0300 061 6161 ( you don’t have to leave your name)
And report them to the Agency too ASAP! “Mary” will be covered by other Carer’s and the agency will know that people are watch and willing to report and more people need to do it… I like a good laugh and I get the job stress thing more than a can say on here but this is disgusting and it’s broken Data protection law too.

I totally agree, I've worked in the NHS wards for 22 years.....I couldn't do the jobs of the HCA! (health care assistant) and they ALL talk like this!! It's nothing personal if you done one you've done them all, and, for all the nurses on their high horses.... I've seen hundreds of you leave them sat in their own sht because the HCA working in that bay was already busy and it's not YOUR job!!
These girls do a job that goes way beyond cleaning sht......when they go, and it get under their fingernails, all up their backs, all over their sheets etc.....infact "Mary" probably does it every night and this girl may be the only one who will take Mary's shift!! Yes it was wrong to say it out loud but these people in this thread need a reality check.......

Imagine if this post was about a teacher talking outside the school about a child, laughing with a colleague because the child had soiled themselves again. I can guarantee everyone here would be saying that teacher should be reported and sacked.

Bet you’d feel different if they were talking about someone you know……

How do you know it was banter? The OP doesn’t use the word banter anywhere? How can you know what kind of laugh it was when you weren’t there and the OP hasn’t elaborated? How does the context of discussing a client after work tell you any of that? I discuss things that happen at work with my colleagues and sometimes we might laugh about things but sometimes we might also be talking seriously, not all conversations between clients are banter? How can you know the type of laughter when you weren’t there?

I do agree they should have respected confidentiality rules, although first names alone would not usually make somebody identifiable. In this case it did because the carer in the car was very close to her house, but the carer on the phone wasn’t to know that. The carer on the phone probably thought the conversation was private, it would never occur to me when on the phone to somebody they could have me on a speaker.

Everyone on this thread must be reading a different conversation to me because nothing the OP wrote equates to taking the piss or mocking or abusing etc, maybe it’s because I’m autistic and not good at reading between the lines but there is nothing in the conversation OP has written out that is an actual mean comment about Mary, how are you concluding they were ‘ripping the piss’ out of Mary from the OP? Saying she shit in the chair is just a fact, surely?

Laughing about something like that, about their client who they are paid to care for is not appropriate.

You can judge how appropriate it is by asking " would Mary like it if she could hear?"
No she would not. She would feel belittled.

Equally the fact they could be heard down the street discussing a client is inappropriate.

Telling someone to FO whilst wearing agency uniform and in an agency car is inappropriate.

Many people who work in the caring profession have commented what inappropriate and indeed uncaring
behaviour this is.

This is a very good point, I know none is us would want our loved ones or ourselves spoken about in this way but behind the scenes I suppose most professions have a bit of this type of chat going on, I was initially thinking it's a tough underpaid job and people need to chat and have a bit of humour, I thought all they need is a reminder about discretion, respect and confidentiality but yes, maybe maybe it is a red flag about how they actually treat their clients and that's very worrying and probably warrants raising it with their agency. We have a retirement type home behind our house and the carers do exactly the same thing, speakerphone on full blast, sometimes really early doors, it must be a handover they need to do or something?