Overheard something quite personal

[User5653218]

I was walking along the road and I could hear someone in a parked car having a chat on a hands free speaker. She had all her windows open and the speaker was really loud.

She was a carer for a care company, logo on the car. I couldn't really make out what the person in the car was saying but the person on the speakerphone could be heard clear as day by anyone nearby. They were obviously discussing the clients they had visited this morning and the speakerphone person said "when I went into Mary at number 14 this morning she had shat herself in her chair again" then they both started laughing.

Mary is not her real name, it is a very distinctive name, so I knew straight away who they were talking about. She's an elderly lady I know quite well. She would be mortified if she knew anyone walking past that car at that time knew that about her. And the car was parked just round the corner from her house so there's a good chance that anyone walking past might work out who they were talking about.

I stopped at the car and said "excuse me, I could hear really clearly what was being said on your speaker, I know the person you are laughing about."

The woman said "oh ffs, we're just having a laugh. Do you fancy wiping old women's bums after they've been sat in their own shit for god knows how long?"

And I said "No I wouldn't, I'm glad you're able to do it, but maybe you could just close your window or not use your speaker, then no-one would hear you"

She said "oh fuck off".

So I left.

Should I report them to their agency? I don't want to get them in trouble, they do do a job many people couldn't, but I know Mary would be devastated if she knew I'd heard that. I'm so angry for her. She's such a lovely lady, she tries so hard to keep her independence and dignity despite all her health problems.

I toyed with telling her, but it would just upset her and I'm not sure how easy it would be for her to find alternative care anyway, there's not much to choose from round our way. And I don't know if she would then be too embarrassed to speak to me. She doesn't have family, if she had a son or daughter I might have spoken to them.

But it makes me so angry that these women were laughing about her and that they will still be doing her personal care. Am I over-reacting? Were they just letting off steam after their early morning shift? It is a tough job, I have no doubt it's not fun to start your day with that. But that is their job and their clients can't help it. I'm sure they don't want to be like this either.

What would you do? I'm thinking I'll tell the agency but not Mary. Or is it enough that I spoke to the person in the car and maybe they'll think about it in future, even if they were rude to me at the time?

I guess I could do a semi-anonymous report where I just say that I overheard some chat in a car and could they please remind their staff to be discreet when having conversations in a public place, rather than give details?

Strange that you were standing so long beside the car OP.

When speaker phone is on you can hear right down the road if it is quiet in imhe.

Why would somebody bother reporting this unless they had information? In this case, @User5653218 had the name of the client and had heard some very personal information about her. If, when I was working in care, I'd heard colleagues referring to a client in that way, I would have reported them. It shows a distinct lack of respect. And my bosses would have taken such a report very seriously, whoever it came from.
I am in the very lucky position of being able to care for my very sick husband myself. The thought of him having to have carers who might laugh at him and discuss a faecal accident like this makes me want to weep, let alone doing it in a public place just around the corner from our home.

Don't report them. It seems so Orwellian. Just forget you heard it and move on.

How to tell us you don't have anyone looked after by carers without telling us.

Definitely report it, not only for being so totally out of line with having a conversation like that where other people could hear but also their response to you. I was expecting to read that they were mortified when you approached them but to hear they told you to fuck off, whilst sat in their company branded vehicle is mindblowing. They should not be in the industry

@tunbridgeoutrage

I answered your question perfectly well you’re just too stupid to comprehend it. The agency would care at a gross beach of confidentiality.

This thread has been so instructive about how sm works (or doesn’t).

op tells this story about half hearing a conversation between “abusive” carers - although the bee in her bonnet seems to be more about the fact that she was told to fuck off by a woman who had just spent the morning elbow deep in other poeople’s shit and who was probably exhausted. Op must have deliberately stood by that car listening because there is no way you can understand a whole conversation on a speakerphone in passing. This begs a question about what she was hoping to hear. You tend to “tune out” other people’s conversations as you walk along. It is also so convenient that the carers mentioned not just Mary’s name but her house number in their conversation. How convenient for op.

The whole thread then becomes about reporting the women with the majority thinking this is the right thing to do. And everyone seems to expect that the women will be disciplined on the say-so of a random stranger who listens to others conversations in the street. Very trustworthy. The crime of one of the women is that she laughed (which may have been nervous laughter etc). Yet both women are now labelled abusive.

Because everyone now wants to believe this they ignore ops observation that Mary reports that the carers are kind and helpful and that op has no reason to doubt this.

Has anyone ever reported anything to a workplace? Or tried to initiate a grievance procedure? I used to represent workers in such situations (I am not a lawyer) and one of the things I was taught is that it is not a crime to be rude or even obnoxious. Op hasn’t seen these women do anything wrong. And that is what counts.

And yet op is deluded enough to believe that her single phone call has resulted in the carers shifts being changed within hours of her “report”. Does that seem likely to you? More delusion.

An interesting part of the thread is the insults levelled at me. I cared for my mother for several years. I was patient and loving and kind to her. We sometimes shared a gallows humour but it was always respectful. And yet people on here who don’t know me from Adam have taken it on themselves to assume that they are certain about what a cruel person I am. Amazing. This is another instance of the unreliability of sm.

Addendum: while I was caring for my mother who had Alzheimer’s i never once lost my patience with her, but caring can be so intense and stressful and that stress always seeks an outlet. For me it came out in emotional eating. These women may release the tension by having a laugh. I have no way of knowing - just the report of a random stranger who overheard a snippet of conversation and ran with it.

This one thread has decided me that MN is as bad as any other sm platform - all of which I avoid because I can’t stand the madness.

@tunbridgeoutrage
you are in the minority here,
that is all,
move on,
different thread for you.
you wont change your opinion, and neither will others

it is all about respect and confidentiality,
the OP has made the complaint on behalf of her friend - absolutely fair play to her, whether the carer gets to be retrained on these matters is not for us to know.

This is how abuse happens. And when it comes to light everyone wrings their hands and says 'why didn't anyone SAY something?'

This one thread has decided me that MN is as bad as any other sm platform - all of which I avoid because I can’t stand the madness

This thread isn't about you, despite your heroic efforts to make it so; and your equally heroic efforts to play down what happened and throw shade on the OPs account and minimise unpleasant and verbally abusive behaviour - to the OP if not to Mary.

An interesting part of the thread is the insults levelled at me

No-one gives a scooby about you - apart from finding your attempts to downplay this and justify it pretty disgusting (or that might just of course be me.)

Op must have deliberately stood by that car listening because there is no way you can understand a whole conversation on a speakerphone in passing.

No you're wrong. You can hear. From down the street. Take care.

And everyone seems to expect that the women will be disciplined on the say-so of a random stranger who listens to others conversations in the street.

No just report. The agency will deal with it as they see fit. You're reaching.
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The crime of one of the women is that she laughed (which may have been nervous laughter etc).
^

Nope. It was because she took no interest and said fuck off when she was told the street could hear here.
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Or^ tried to initiate a grievance procedure? I used to represent workers in such situations (I am not a lawyer)
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Omg OP isn't trying "to initiate a grievance ". Stop reaching.

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that it is not a crime to be rude or even obnoxious. Op hasn’t seen these women do anything wrong. And that is what counts.
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Wow! But I bet you were taught there is a time and a place! God alive.

And tbh I have zero interest in how you cared for your mum. I'm sure you did an excellent job but it's irrelevant.
^

Like so many things on here this has grown arms and legs and upset people. @tunbridgeoutrage I'm sorry this thread has touched a nerve.

I have Mary's phone number because she's a neighbour who has become a friend after 20 years of living nearby and walking prams and toddlers and children and dogs along her street. There's nothing odd about that.

I hope the carer in question, I guess the one in the car broadcasting the conversation more than the one who thought she was just talking to her colleague, is reminded of the importance of discretion. That's all. I don't want anyone sacked.

I have no idea if the carer was changed because of my report or because she was sick or she broke her leg or someone else needed her more.

I did say both in my phone call and my email that as far as I knew Mary has always been happy with the care provided to her.

I'm happy that telling the agency was the right thing to do. I'm not going to escalate it any further though.

I'm happy that telling the agency was the right thing to do. I'm not going to escalate it any further though.

Yes as simple as that.

@tunbridgeoutrage you can wind your neck in.

She was on a speakerphone / it was her colleague in the car who responded not her.

@Amispringy @FadeAwayAndRadiate

I'm really sorry ...I quoted your post instead of someone else's! I don't even know how I did it. I normally quickly preview/proof read, but was in a rush. I MEANT to quote THIS... by

@SophiaElise

Let's say you tell the agency, the carers quit or get sacked, no-one wants the job and Mary has to go into a home. And dies shortly afterwards.

Or... you just get on with your day and life carries on as normal...

NOW I can legitimately say 'WTF have I just read?!

She was on a speakerphone / it was her colleague in the car who responded not her.

Yep and she still didn't take any interest in broadcasting to the street, telling OP to FO.

OP is not a bloody detective. If the agency care let them deal with that.

@tunbridgeoutrage
OP never said she heard the whole conversation in passing, only that one line about Mary. Sounds plausible to me.

I agree it’s highly unlikely Mary’s carer was suddenly changed yesterday as the result of one phone call.

I agree that some carers will cope by using crude humour, and that the woman may not have realised she was on speakerphone. But the reaction of the woman in the car was all wrong. This was her fault really - if she cared, she would have felt bad that someone overheard such a comment, not told them to fuck off. Who knows though, she might be more careful with speakerphone in future.

A lot of people nowadays do actually ask “Am I on speaker?” before they say something personal. Many of my family and colleagues do it. Not everyone, but it’s becoming more common.

@FadeAwayAndRadiate

I think it is a tough job and I can imagine talking with colleagues is a coping mechanism and a way to offload.
But your right. The conversation should have been kept private.
And when she realises it wasn't she should have been more apologetic than to tell you to F off.
I would report yes.

Live in carer here for LO with vascular dementia. No matter how tired or how hard your day has been, it's certainly not as hard, distressing, upsetting or confusing as it will have been for the person who is being cared for. Try putting yourself in their shoes. At least the carer can go home, for the caree, they never escape it.

FFS, it's your job, if you can't do it with compassion, find something else.

Tell the company.
Everyone deserves dignity and respect.
Nasty.
What foul mouth person.
I hope she is civilised to Mary in person.

What? How on earth have you turned this into OPs fault? Ridiculous comment

@tunbridgeoutrage as you have form for, instead of responding to the matter at hand you have chosen to just completely attack the OP, make things up and go completely off tangent - paragraphs and paragraphs. Odd.

If OP only has Mary's word for it that the carers are kind to her, how do we know this is actually the case for every single person who cares for her? Mary might be the 'don't want to cause any trouble' sort of person who wouldn't want to make a fuss if they were less than kind on any occasion.

My dad was like this when he had carers coming in to him - they were a mixed bag, some were polite to him and some weren't, but he never said anything (except to us) about the ones who were rude, so the care agency wouldn't have been aware of any problems. And this is the other issue imho - even if other carers looking after Mary are nice to her, it's still possible this one isn't. And even if she is kind to her on the surface, she should have more respect than to laugh at her behind her back.

It would have been one thing if she had handled OP's comments differently, but to tell a concerned acquaintance of the client to fuck off imho paints a picture of this individual as someone who should not to be entrusted to the care of vulnerable people.

For context, I am a carer too, of my elderly mother, she can thankfully (so far, at any rate) manage her own toileting, but I live in dread of that changing so I do agree that anyone who is willing to wipe bottoms for a living deserves respect for being prepared to take on such an unpleasant task. But by being so disrespectful out of her client's hearing, this woman has kind of forfeited her right to that respect, imho. Especially as she's being paid to do the job and while she may still suffer carer burnout, it's not the same sort of burnout a relative may suffer, which makes her actions less excusable imo.

Very odd. All of that to explain why they are overweight.

Are you sure you're posting on the right thread?