Overheard something quite personal

[User5653218]

I was walking along the road and I could hear someone in a parked car having a chat on a hands free speaker. She had all her windows open and the speaker was really loud.

She was a carer for a care company, logo on the car. I couldn't really make out what the person in the car was saying but the person on the speakerphone could be heard clear as day by anyone nearby. They were obviously discussing the clients they had visited this morning and the speakerphone person said "when I went into Mary at number 14 this morning she had shat herself in her chair again" then they both started laughing.

Mary is not her real name, it is a very distinctive name, so I knew straight away who they were talking about. She's an elderly lady I know quite well. She would be mortified if she knew anyone walking past that car at that time knew that about her. And the car was parked just round the corner from her house so there's a good chance that anyone walking past might work out who they were talking about.

I stopped at the car and said "excuse me, I could hear really clearly what was being said on your speaker, I know the person you are laughing about."

The woman said "oh ffs, we're just having a laugh. Do you fancy wiping old women's bums after they've been sat in their own shit for god knows how long?"

And I said "No I wouldn't, I'm glad you're able to do it, but maybe you could just close your window or not use your speaker, then no-one would hear you"

She said "oh fuck off".

So I left.

Should I report them to their agency? I don't want to get them in trouble, they do do a job many people couldn't, but I know Mary would be devastated if she knew I'd heard that. I'm so angry for her. She's such a lovely lady, she tries so hard to keep her independence and dignity despite all her health problems.

I toyed with telling her, but it would just upset her and I'm not sure how easy it would be for her to find alternative care anyway, there's not much to choose from round our way. And I don't know if she would then be too embarrassed to speak to me. She doesn't have family, if she had a son or daughter I might have spoken to them.

But it makes me so angry that these women were laughing about her and that they will still be doing her personal care. Am I over-reacting? Were they just letting off steam after their early morning shift? It is a tough job, I have no doubt it's not fun to start your day with that. But that is their job and their clients can't help it. I'm sure they don't want to be like this either.

What would you do? I'm thinking I'll tell the agency but not Mary. Or is it enough that I spoke to the person in the car and maybe they'll think about it in future, even if they were rude to me at the time?

I guess I could do a semi-anonymous report where I just say that I overheard some chat in a car and could they please remind their staff to be discreet when having conversations in a public place, rather than give details?

I’ve had similar conversations over the phone with colleagues, sometimes you just need a debrief and if you can’t laugh or moan about some of these moments then you would probably cry or quit the job. We are encouraged at my workplace to talk to our colleagues about the tough things, and you do need a kind of gallows humour to keep on turning up to work if you have had a day of clearing up shit or where you’ve been bitten/ kicked by a client or when you can see somebody is declining and losing capacity day to day. I care very much for the people I care for but it doesn’t mean I don’t find aspects of the job hard or don’t need to let off steam sometimes, I respect the people I care for but that doesn’t mean I always talk with respect about them when in private. It’s like how parents might talk badly about their children and have a moan when not in front of them, it doesn’t mean they don’t love their children. The carer on the phone wasn’t to know her colleague had her on speaker phone or had her windows down, if what she’s said had been in private as she probably thought it was it would be a non issue.

The woman in the car was foolish to have her windows down and on speaker phone but I suppose she probably didn’t know that her colleague was going to mention a close colleague with a distinctive name in an identifiable way. This seems like a genuine mistake, maybe one that warrants a reminder about ensuring conversations and debriefs are private but not one that warrants going to the CQC etc, this wasn’t intentionally malicious or unkind behaviour it was just two colleagues letting off steam about a poorly paid thankless hard job with some vey shitty parts to it in an inappropriate location. Certainly not worth trying to get anyone fired, especially if the actual care they give is good.

I have done caring work for older people, and ‘wiped people’s bums’, and I’d be seriously worried if someone was speaking so callously about another human being, poor Mary. I’d actually be worried about their care.

It’s one thing to let off steam, I have had the odd ‘oh god X did this’ with a colleague. That’s natural, it’s a hard job.

But the way that woman told you to F off, I don’t know it makes my skin crawl a bit. She knew her elderly patient/client’s intimate, and humiliating story had been heard by a neighbour, and couldn’t give a flying fuck. Honestly that is the kind of person I would worry about looking after such a vulnerable elderly person. There needs to be some level of decency and compassion, and this carer didn’t seem to have it.

@PimmsandCucumbers I agree- Telling someone to Fuck off isn’t great.
A friend works at a well respected care home and she loves it.
Loves the residents and never speaks badly of them, BUT I think management there are good.

She had to train for a few months, and client dignity is paramount.

Do people have no self-awareness anymore? That poor old lady 😢If my kids treated anyone like that I would be extremely angry!!

I couldn't really make out what the person in the car was saying…

Can you read?

OP also said the carers are good and very kind to Mary. If this was an issue of an elderly person being mistreated I would say that she had to report but that isn’t the case here. This is two probably overworked carers letting off steam. What would a manager do with this information anyway? It isn’t misconduct. If they had laughed in front of Mary I could understand the outrage but they didn’t. Op doesn’t even really know who they were talking about. She just made assumptions.

I would absolutely tell the agency. This is abuse.

This.
If they can talk that way about a vulnerable client and then abuse you for pointing out they can be heard, and we're completely unabashed about their action, I very much doubt they are treating Mary with kindness and compassion. Such abusive language and complete disregard for the privacy and dignity of a patient/client is very unlikely to be confined to a phone conversation

One day that could be US, sitting in poo with dementia or whatever.
It’s a scary thought .

Yes this. Again it’s OK to let off steam, but the manner is really crucial. That this woman was being so callous and told a neighbour to fuck off is downright aggressive!

The colleague venting was unaware she could be heard so more than likely thought she was having a private conversation with a colleague
personally I wouldn’t of followed it up
it’ll just make a lot of work for care company for nothing

it’ll just make a lot of work for care company for nothing

I hope you realise you've just demolished in one fell swoop the whole reason why safeguarding and the whistleblowing of abuse actually exist.

I hope those care-workers remember their own words & attitude in 30/40 years time when they're the ones needing intimate care.

Please, please report her, OP. My sister in law is about to start having carers at home and hearing about poor Mary in your post broke my heart.

This is the kind of story that makes me want to kill myself before I get infirm enough to need personal care.

Worrying, isn't it? not just the complete lack of respect for someone elderly and vulnerable but the people who seem to think it's OK as 'banter' and that it shouldn't be reported.

It's one thing to let of steam with colleagues in a private environment and it's another to broadcast on loud speaker to the street.
And then proceed to tell someone to fuck off when it's pointed out.

If Mary was my relative I'd be devastated.

I wouldn't tell Mary ever. But I would be emailing that agency.

Its unprofessional and just really disrespectful.

The colleague venting was unaware she could be heard so more than likely thought she was having a private conversation with a colleague
personally I wouldn’t of followed it up
it’ll just make a lot of work for care company for nothing

She was told she could be heard.

For nothing? No, that 'nothing' is actually called " their client's dignity ".

This is a person who should not be in this job. I'm aware that not everyone is willing to carry out personal care, but that does not mean that Mary has to put up with carers who disrespect her dignity.

Not all carers are equal.

If I found out that a carer had been acting in an unprofessional way as you describe, I'd wipe the floor with them.
I'd let the agency know.
I'd report it far and wide.
If that excuse for a carer behaves like that to you, how on earth is she treating poor vulnerable Mary?

Report them to the agency asap. I am a care giver and to think that people would talk about a client in this way is just wrong. If they are prepared to laugh at the suffering of someone else that blatantly then I am scared to think of what they are saying or doing behind closed doors.

Wouldn't tell Mary, 100% would tell agency.
What a disgusting person she is. Her response to you as well, equally disgusting. Please, please report.

Oh, and when I say that this person is someone in the wrong job, I'm speaking as someone who has been there.

I can do the job. I have done the job. And I enjoyed doing the job, bodily fluids and all.

Now I work in a different capacity, but still see lots of people with their carers. And if the carers aren't behaving as they should, I wouldn't hesitate for a minute in reporting them.

By speaking loudly and publicly about Mary, the carer has revealed the extent of her care needs and could even make her vulnerable to predatory people who do things like doorstep scamming.

If Mary was my mother, I'd want to know and I'd want the agency to know. Please report.

Complain to the company for sure. If the carer has seemed mortified you'd heard her that would be a but different. Clearly she has no understanding of how to respect a patients dignity. What she says in private is her own business but the fact that you could hear it makes it unacceptable.

I understand your point and it sounds terrible from your vantage point, but when you think of it they're both carers letting off steam. It's a difficult job. Unless you see/hear actual evidence of abuse then I wouldn't worry.
Imagine what all the nurses and doctors must say about us amongst themselves! Or for that matter, anyone else who deals with the public.

*Maybe you could offer some help to Mary perhaps pop in and change her in the morning and before bed.

@Mumtothreegirlies*

Bad day? You always this snarky?