Overheard something quite personal

[User5653218]

I was walking along the road and I could hear someone in a parked car having a chat on a hands free speaker. She had all her windows open and the speaker was really loud.

She was a carer for a care company, logo on the car. I couldn't really make out what the person in the car was saying but the person on the speakerphone could be heard clear as day by anyone nearby. They were obviously discussing the clients they had visited this morning and the speakerphone person said "when I went into Mary at number 14 this morning she had shat herself in her chair again" then they both started laughing.

Mary is not her real name, it is a very distinctive name, so I knew straight away who they were talking about. She's an elderly lady I know quite well. She would be mortified if she knew anyone walking past that car at that time knew that about her. And the car was parked just round the corner from her house so there's a good chance that anyone walking past might work out who they were talking about.

I stopped at the car and said "excuse me, I could hear really clearly what was being said on your speaker, I know the person you are laughing about."

The woman said "oh ffs, we're just having a laugh. Do you fancy wiping old women's bums after they've been sat in their own shit for god knows how long?"

And I said "No I wouldn't, I'm glad you're able to do it, but maybe you could just close your window or not use your speaker, then no-one would hear you"

She said "oh fuck off".

So I left.

Should I report them to their agency? I don't want to get them in trouble, they do do a job many people couldn't, but I know Mary would be devastated if she knew I'd heard that. I'm so angry for her. She's such a lovely lady, she tries so hard to keep her independence and dignity despite all her health problems.

I toyed with telling her, but it would just upset her and I'm not sure how easy it would be for her to find alternative care anyway, there's not much to choose from round our way. And I don't know if she would then be too embarrassed to speak to me. She doesn't have family, if she had a son or daughter I might have spoken to them.

But it makes me so angry that these women were laughing about her and that they will still be doing her personal care. Am I over-reacting? Were they just letting off steam after their early morning shift? It is a tough job, I have no doubt it's not fun to start your day with that. But that is their job and their clients can't help it. I'm sure they don't want to be like this either.

What would you do? I'm thinking I'll tell the agency but not Mary. Or is it enough that I spoke to the person in the car and maybe they'll think about it in future, even if they were rude to me at the time?

I guess I could do a semi-anonymous report where I just say that I overheard some chat in a car and could they please remind their staff to be discreet when having conversations in a public place, rather than give details?

You did the right thing. Fwiw, I heard the exact same thing shouted by a nurse at the top of her voice in a hospital corridor about an old man with dementia.

I absolutely would report to the company. I certainly would not tell the poor elderly lady.

I would take this further. I understand them talking about it between themselves, but it was her reaction to you, which is the most shocking thing. You’ve got someone in a caring profession, that tells passers by to ‘fuck off’. No way is that acceptable, you should 100 percent take this further.

Don’t tell Mary, it would be so upsetting for her.

Don't tell the lady you know, but agree with others to report it. Confidentiality in care is a must and should be a given.

... I wouldn't say it was light relief between colleagues. The woman told the OP to fuck off, when she should have been mortified, agreed that she was in the wrong and apologised instead.

I would definitely report the care worker. She was unprofessional and shouldn't be working in care if that is what 'caring' looks like.

I was a nurse, so I have cleaned more than my fair share of shitty bottoms, @Jongleterre, and there is absolutely no way I would talk about a patient in such an unpleasant way - let alone doing it so anyone walking past could hear me!

When I started my training, it was drummed into us that we should never discuss our patients in public, especially not by name, because that was a complete breach of confidentiality.

If an elderly relative or friend of mine was being discussed so nastily, in public, I would be appalled and furious - wouldn’t you?

I would write to the agency and I would be tempted to write to a supervisory body too

I'd 100% report them that's just awful behaviour. Doesn't matter if the job is hard (which it of course is) talking about a patient like that and then the audacity to not apologise but to say F off, is not acceptable....

But what if the gossiping carers are not good carers and Mary would be better off with someone else looking after her? they certainly don't respect her or see her as an individual otherwise they wouldn't be talking like that about her so everyone can hear.
OP don't tell Mary but you should tell the agency.

Of course you should report her. Why on earth wouldn't you?

Absolutely report them. If she'd been at all apologetic I might say you should let it go but there's a big difference between letting off steam, and being downright offensive, both to Mary and to you.

WTF have I just read?!

She heard both sides of the "conversation"

Is comprehension as limited as compassion and humanity in your head?

If “Mary” was my mum I’d be extremely grateful to you and would buy you a lovely bunch of flowers. You’ve definitely done the decent thing to safeguard Mary and other vulnerable people too. Ring the CQC and explain the incident to them too, they’ll take it seriously. Lessons need to be learnt.

Absolutely this!

I see you’ve told the agency and they didn’t seem overly bothered. I would escalate to the council and other people that have been suggested up thread. This is absolutely not ok and neither is their reaction.

🙄

Which would be disrespectful if said between two people privately, but no one else would know, at least. Spoken and overheard by someone else actually becomes a safe guarding, disciplinary offence when caring for a vulnerable person, and therefore not at all just 'banter'.

Yes, absolutely this. It is not acceptable behaviour and would raise concerns about how they are talking to clients and treating them, if that's how they talk in private.

Anyone working in social care knows this is not acceptable.

@FadeAwayAndRadiate Can I help you with your understanding?

Honestly. I would take it higher. Having these arseholes continue to care for her would do her no favour. You may find she is unhappy already and doesn't want to speak up. It is beyond unacceptable.

This is a tough one, my terminally ill mum was very upset one day because she'd soiled herself and overhead the nurse complaining about it. She died two days after, and I hate to think of my mum feeling that shame when she was already frail and in a lot of pain because of a caregivers indiscretion, and as it was the caregivers job, why was she complaining?
But as a caregiver myself I understand it can be a tough job.
I didn't report the caregiver who made my mum feel crappy and maybe I should have but what good would it have done?
Anyway in your case I think it's more the attitude of the caregiver when you flagged it with her that would make me report it, she didn't care about that ladies feelings at all, so could that show she wouldn't care when she was at work?

Well said @Amispringy

I'd report this without hesitation. Its unprofessional in so many ways....and downright mean. If these were my employees that would be instant dismissal for breach of confidentiality. Theyd be no second chances. She didn't even gave the decency to look ashamed when caught in the act! She just swore. If that's what she's like openly I can only imagine what she might keep to herself!

I understand what you mean by "light relief banter" as my OH is a retired emergency services employee and their "humour" was quite black, BUT it was never done in the middle of the street, over loudspeaker and no names mentioned. THAT was the issue, not the banter (although that was a really horrible thing to say about someone who cannot help what happens)