Beyond Titan - physics and the deep sea

[TokyoStories]

Continuing our crash course in all things deep-sea.

That was my thought process when I was looking at pictures, that it isn’t any different to an aeroplane and at least on a little submarine like that you’d feel like you could escape if you had to. I think. But we’re not used to being underwater. I know we’re not used to being in the sky either but under the sea is a different world.

Both Sky news and the BBC are reporting that suspected human remains have been found in the wreckage.
I don't want to really think about what state they would be in but I hope this will maybe give the families some chance of closure and feeling like they have had the opportunity to lay their loved one to rest.

@SirQuintusAureliusMaximus thanks for sharing, that’s fascinating. And frightening. My dad was very knowledgeable about physics and chemistry, would’ve loved to have discussed all of this with him.

What is this? It looks like tape

I’ve come to join this thread as learned so much from the others.

I have a question about icebergs. The titanic sank when it hit an iceberg, yet there appears to be no sign of ice floes or icebergs anywhere near the wreck today (from the search videos). Was the 1912 iceberg an outlier that had drifted south, or has global warming made a difference? Sorry if it’s a silly question

I think it was the middle 'tube' structure that went.

Sort of if you put a couple of ends on to an empty coke can and then crushed the can with your hand the two ends would be undamaged. They might fly off in different directions.

For interesting reading for non sciency people the book The Perfect Storm not the film, that was crap, but the book explains different currents and the dangers of fishing and why it can be better in deep water than shallow in a storm.

@PurposefulBear 1912 had a lot of icebergs and also winds.

https://rss.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1740-9713.2014.00746.x#:~:text=In%201912%2C%20the%20peak%20number,as%20in%20an%20average%20year.

Sorry if this sounds flippant - they've found human remains in the sub, I thought that would be impossible due to the pressure.

Yeeaaah, 'remains' being the operative word

There won't be much left that could be identified as human, possibly some 'bits' caught in clothing, but the vast majority of the bodies won't be there

Someone on the other threads said they wouldn't find anything though as they'd be all liquid

Very interested in this thread. Science background too and now learning more about physics and deep sea. Following!

I saw that one, too - terribly sad, particularly when he was performing such a selfless act.

At 2 miles my pressure calculator which is essentially proportional to depth is coming out as a minimum of 31 000 000Pa that’s using a density of 1000 kg per m cubed but salt water is much denser. So a factor is 310 greater - that’s minimum then the collapsing can

These pressure charts are very interesting.

As the owner of two fish tanks (one cold, one tropical, neither salt) I can confirm that water is incredibly heavy - much more so than people think. My dad used to make his own aquaria, and I can remember him advising someone who was constructing a 4 foot tank to use a particular thickness of glass. The man didn't - just used ordinary window glass - landscaped and filled it - seemed fine; then during the night there was a terrific CRACK and about a hundred gallons of water flooded their living room. Fortunately it wasn't stocked.

My dad's only comment was "I'm surprised it lasted that long".

WOW!

And that was a gradual reduction of interior pressure, too.

As you say 400 times more force, applied suddenly! 😦

Yes a few people said that so interesting to hear that remains of some form have been found.

Hopefully they can be identified and returned to the families for some sort of burial.

It's an interesting question - I'd never thought of that, but you got me wondering about it, too.

I'm glad @sashh answered it further down.

And I see there's a lot of conjecture about remains etc. I think this just all goes to show that no matter how much science discovers, there is so much that we just don't know about what happens when there are so many variables (size of sub, composite materials, depth, pressure, amount of oxygen in the sub, ditto CO2, number of people and the actual "weight of flesh" (to put it crudely), where they were sitting etc - all of these could influence the result.

All anyone, no matter how experts can do is make very educated guesses based on the information available.

Ironically the remains of these "Titanic tourists" may actually provide some very valuable data that will help scientists build up a more accurate picture.

Yes I really hope so. The family would likely appreciate that.

There's a psychological term called groupthink. Whereby the desire for the group to all agree at all costs and conform overrides common sense and people expressing unpopular opinions (the guy who got fired for the health and safety)
So the desire for the group to be agreeable drives out good decision making and alot of things get ignored. I believe another example is a rocket launch in America by NASA where decisions were ignored as high up people wanted everyone to just say yes. It turned into a disaster and the rocket exploded while launching.

Yes… when challenger blew up, it was known that it had never been that cold on a launch day before, but no one called a halt saying “we don’t know if these conditions are suitable”

Yes the challenger that's it. There are so many examples of groupthink throughout history. You would think humans would learn but seems not when an individual or group of people are so hell bent on a concept or project that they will not listen to others and common sense

Actually they did.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2012/02/06/146490064/remembering-roger-boisjoly-he-tried-to-stop-shuttle-challenger-launch

Thanks @sashh

Place marking as I'm finding this very interesting. Thank you

I think it was the middle 'tube' structure that went.

But there is footage showing recovered panels of the middle structure.

Trying to persuade someone to change their mind when you know there are issues is a skill in itself.

Trying to persuade many people to do change their mind.....

De lurking to thank sashh for the Challenger link. I've been fascinated by it since I was a child.

Infuriating that the people with the 'managers hats' prevailed over the hard data and the engineers strong objections. I guess it's common 🙁