MISSING TITAN SUB - THREAD 5

[tortoishelll]

Thread 5 - a continuation.

My heart aches for those poor men and their families. 💔😔

In part because of James Cameron talking about the alert system and the fact that the acrylic window would crackle, that they probably did get some warning even if seconds that they were going to die. The fear they must have felt.

That is pure speculation - no-one will ever know for certain which part of the sub failed - it could have been the porthole but it could equally be the main carbon fibre body or something else. There may have been warning sounds but even if there were the passengers probably wouldn't have known what they meant and the highly experienced pilot is unlikely to have freaked out - he would have remained calm and taken any step available to him to try to avoid disaster (a couple of the articles that have been posted over these threads have detailed potential disasters on deep dives and how calm the pilots on those occasions remained). They may well have been completely oblivious.

I imagine Christine Dawood felt she wanted to do that interview as soon as she did because she needed to clear her husband's name after the despicable accusation by the aunt which deliberately put her (the aunt's) brother in such a bad light.

The aunt simply couldn't wait to contact the press, give interviews and have her own photo published. I noticed the family handprints she was holding were dated 2006. I don't think she had much contact with the Dawood family at all after falling out with her brother. Malicious woman.

It is heartbreaking about the 4 people who died, less so Stockton Rush.

I agree with others who said how fascinating @Igneococcus posts are.

“Out of stock” now on the crushed polystyrene cup. We aren’t the only ones who’ve learnt a lot over the last week.

I half wanted one of those for myself, and then felt it was a bit of a mad thing to spend £350 on, when I'm only working part-time currently. I'd not heard of people doing that before.

I watched Take Me to the Titanic a few days ago, and then the YouTube video of the man who went on it shortly before but they had to come back up due to issues with the sub. The latter was particularly disturbing. Rush asks if anyone wants to come and help them fix the sub, all hands on deck kind of thing. The weather was particularly treacherous.

I feel for poor Suleman’s mum. I can’t imagine the kind of grief and no doubt regret she’s experiencing. Thank god she has her daughter.

When I went to Everest base camp, I found a pack of crisps in my bag. They had expanded over the time I had them due to the decrease in pressure with altitude.

I wonder if all the teens - twenty somethings may download titanic now. Wouldn't be surprised if they re released it at the cinema ☹️

Where is part2 to the documentary?

The Titanic was in the cinema a few weeks ago. Maybe about April time for the 25th anniversary. It was also in 3D and also 4D. I wanted to see the 3D or 4D but I never made time and with the cost of living I had to keep with some cut backs at home and I never did see it but I do have it on dvd. I may watch it but I would love to see it in 4D.

If you watch the Travel documentary on iplayer it offers you episode 2 at the end to follow on.

@SharkSip Oh I didn't realise that.

@Bouledeneige Just finished ep1. Thank you.

Why didn't they know what was forwards and back on the remote? 😳

It was playing up, so right I believe was now forward. An example of just how flimsy the whole set up seemed.

The documentaries were so hard to watch. All the enthusiasm, the team work etc but no one seemingly perturbed by an issue like the remote not working the thrusters with no back up plan in place. Just seems extraordinary how blinkered the ceo seemed to be.

I've now watched the whole of Take Me To the Titanic - this is a link to the whole thing in a single episoder - rather than two parts
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0fpz9zw/the-travel-show-take-me-to-titanic?page=1

Here are my thoughts for anyone interested:

If you are interested in the loss of the Titan, it is very much worth watching.

Be prepared to feel disturbed/creepy out/shivers down the spine from things said that were fairly routine at the time but have acquired a significant poignance.

The three passengers - Oisin Fanning, Jaden Pan and Renata Rojas - were so excited about going that it gave me a different perspective on what I previously thought was idiocy. Renata Rojas in particular - it had been a life long dream for her and she was in tears. When she was a little girl she dreamed of discovering the wreck herself but as she said someone beat her to it. I see now why for some people they would be so drawn to do this which I didn't understand before.

The descriptions of what they saw and how they felt were poetic.

On this trip on of the thrusters failed but in the sub they were more obsessed with getting to the wreck than worrying about the wider impact of techical failures. It was really suprising.

The claustrophic-ness of the sub really comes across. I don't think it's something many people could cope with.

The casual attitude of everyone involved on the technical side to the failure of one of the thrusters was extraordinary. Especially one of the divers (in the water when they set off) who noticed one wasn't working - one he had just replaced -but there was no sense at all that anyone thought maybe they should call it back or stop it.

Stockton Rush is a vile, self-aggrandising individual who stands round like a God. I'm sure I'm tainted by what I now know but I found him grotesque.

It's a good documentary and as it turns out a record of something that might never otherwise have been seen.

@nancy2022 Where is part2 to the documentary?

My post above with my "review" has a link to the full thing,

I ended up down a rabbit hole of aeroplane crash analysis YouTubers a while ago (Mentorpilot, etc), and nope it is usually mechanical failures. Only very rarely do you get the “pilots dicking about”, or the total incompetents.

The response to the mechanical failure might be suboptimal (usually because the pilots don’t realise exactly what has happened), but the trigger is usually something breaking mid-flight.

As a senior nurse I had risk-management training from a company run by retired airline pilots, and some/many of the aviation disasters they told us about were caused by junior pilots (or airline staff) not feeling brave enough to contradict their more experienced seniors. One of the medical disasters they discussed - in a private hospital - was entirely caused by hierarchical fear amongst the team members, and the focus of the course was valuing everyone in the team, embracing the validity of others’ suggestions, not just obeying the most senior member.

Yep, there is the Elaine Bromily training video - horrific. I’ve seen many doctors cry watching it, never seen anyone not be deeply affected by it.

What exactly happened with the controller?
It's like spoof.

Does anyone know out of how many times they went down nothing failed or went wrong?

Have I got this right? The Titan was such a big deal because it was the only way the public can see the titanic?

How did the first person discover it?

I thought Reneta was odd. She said she was saving since she was a little girl to see the titantic but how can she save for a service that wasn't ever there before til recently. I thought maybe she was placed there as a PR stunt. She was a little bit too much.

@SharkSip

She was very oddly intense. I agree. She appears to be real though in as much as you can ever tell.

https://en.as.com/latest_news/who-is-renata-rojas-the-mexican-diver-who-visited-the-titanic-shipwreck-n/

https://twitter.com/RojasRenata

I can see - how if you were obsessed - once you knew someone had been there on a sub that you would start saving thinking one day I will do it myself - whether that's hitching a ride on someone elses sub or building your own

Looking at it dispassionately, if there is anything people wanted to do, someone will commercialise it.

On the Stockton Rush/Oceangate Reddit someone linked above one of the questions to him was (very paraphrased from memory) something like have you always been interested in the Titanic and his answer was something like no I'm just interested in the commercialisation (ie. making money). Before watching the documentary I thought he was bit of a cock but a bit of a cock actually interested in the Titanic and trying to open up access for others is totally different from a bit of a cock obsessed with making money.

Having watched the documentary as I said above, I think he was a vile person.

Just watched it again, and it’s brought back so much of the course to me (which I took years ago). Focus on being honest in debriefings, not to indulge the blame culture to which clinicians may automatically revert, explore what happened and discuss how to make it a “never event” in future.

Well worth 14 minutes of anyone’s time, and what a great man to have turned the awful, avoidable death of his wife into a force for good.

You should listen to Cautionary Tales by Tim Harford

Those kind of stories come up - human factors in accidents

Podcasts | Tim Harford

To lighten the mood slightly, here is someone practising how to tell the pilot there is an issue (Hey Chief)

Thanks for posting this. What an amazing man.

Wow. Just watched the Travel Show episode and it’s this weird portentous, ironic, ominous thing - I can’t even think of the right word but almost like it was made retrospectively to show how fragile the build and cavalier the attitude to safety was. The bit where they’d seen something looked off with one of the thrusters, but let it into the water regardless, the endless sifting through papers when the thruster issue emerges at the bottom, the pilot not knowing what to do. And some of the comments are shocking with hindsight. “It looks like it was put together with matchsticks but obviously it isn’t” or something one of the passengers says 😔

Heh, excellent!