MISSING TITAN SUB - THREAD 5

[tortoishelll]

Thread 5 - a continuation.

My heart aches for those poor men and their families. 💔😔

Along with - you don't mess with the ocean. As DF (Merchant Navy) once said - your first mistake is usually also your last.

The CEO's whole concept using innovation and 'break the rules' and 'get a prototype into the market' approach was fundamentally flawed (which obviously people had been telling him for years). That works well if you're designing an app for online shopping. Total disaster taking that approach when the safety of passengers is involved.

www.thesun.co.uk/news/22796411/douglas-murray-left-envy-titanic/

No, I don't believe so.

Many successful expeditions to Titanic were done in past, the French guy alone did like 37 of them. So why would he go along with this one?

I don't know if it's changed now, but the Oceangate website listed the French guy as one of several content experts working with/for them - so quite likely some of his past successful expeditions were on Titan. It sounds like Oceangate were lucky enough to get away with the risks they took for a while - Titan was safe enough. Until it wasn't.

Media are reporting today that actor/presenter Ross Kemp was going to go down in Titan for a documentary but the production company decided it was too unsafe and the idea was dropped.
Makes you wonder again why did those on board not do a bit of research, and what would have happened to Stockton Rush had he not been on that particular trip himself. Could be have faced charges and gone to jail?

Thanks @Tipintorecession I feel incredibly lucky that I got into that field of research, it was more by chance than design but I'm really glad I did.

No. Previous dives by other companies have been done using tested engineered vehicles. The central premise is always a sphere made of titanium and all attachments to the sphere made in titanium. Strongest object, metal and everything in harmony. Not mixed materials. Titanic was found as a result of diving down to the sunken nuclear subs Thesher and Scorpion to see how they were degrading and the US Navy paid for the extra time to locate the wreck. Prob been some hairy moments but that's the nature of deep sea exploration. Not a day trip to a wreck.

Having seen his doc on Barlinnie prison it's probably just as well, never seen such a wuss. 😆

Having emergency plans would put you off? I would have thought NOT having emergency plans would be more alarming.

@Igneococcus I was 13 when Bob Ballard and his team discovered Titanic.
I had lots of books. Since then I've been interested in the story of Titanic.
Thanks for sharing your stories of Alvin ( I remember reading Ballard speaking about it as if it was his child) and for all the information you've given on this thread.

It is a tragedy for those people, their families and friends.

Somehow, not sure how it can be done, but there is a need for tougher regulation in international waters.

My DS2 is the same age as Suleman and played sports with some boys from his school, although he didn't know Suleman. It just feels close to home, and I feel that the aunt really shouldn't have said those things about him being terrified and only wanting to please his father, whether true or not.

Who knows, the aunt's claims might be completely false.

I dislike how the press is reporting what she said as though it was indisputable fact. There are various reasons why the aunt might be mistaken or even deliberately saying what she did. The father and son are not here to speak for themselves so it is totally unacceptable to speculate on that. I find it really wrong.

@Igneococcus Sorry, I misread this...

hiked to the top of Mt St Helens because there is a wee hot stream in the crater

As 'hot wee stream' and wondered why the heck you wanted to see that....

@Igneococcus I’m in awe of your career and experiences. Makes me wonder what on earth I’ve been doing with my life 😂

Ditto waterlego - incredible career and experiences. I have had... zero exploration and exciting experiences... but my parents did, I understand the mindset of those who want to push boundaries, go places, see things, that others have not, find out whats there, what it does, why...

Sometimes, a lot of the time, it involves treading a fine line between 'acceptable risk' and 'what the fuck'... but the benefits must out weigh the risk.

For Titan and OceanGate and those who died... the benefits did not, and though I am certain Rush believed they did, he comes across like an arrogant and rather Trumpian maniac, believing his own bullshit, it is a tragedy he took others down with him (pun NOT intended).

The far-right culture warriors waste no time in trying to make this fit into their ridiculous narratives. It's beginning to look really desperate.

I was disappointed by the Aunt's comments. As I understand it she hadn't seen her brother Shahzada Dawood in years and said she'd heard Suleman was fearful from someone else. So I guess that's pretty unreliable and third hand info.

I feel very much for the wife and sister who apparently were on the support boat - at least during the search (I'm not sure if they were there to see them off on their expedition). How desperately sad for them to return him without them.

Can we please leave politics out of this?

I was simply responding to another poster's link to The Sun.

the article was written by the recent ex prime minister and is quoted front page of the daily mail.

hes using this to score populist political points which is abhorrent and needs called out.

My point exactly.

(although the Sun article was written by Douglas Murray, not BJ)

The cheap political points over this tragedy are wearing thin on both sides.

The right are busy saying "eeeh look the left hate rich people. Look at them full of envy. This is proof that the left hate people doing well for themselves".

The left are busy saying "eeeh look at how awful the world is. Nobody every reports on refugee ships, like everrr. People only care when it's million people. Funny that".

Meanwhile all the rational people are able to see that it's tragic for people to die on an experimental craft, that the nature of the expedition is so unusual made it front page news, AND that refugee boats are reported on, and understand it isn't a competition on which deaths are worse.

Well put.

And just because someone posts a link to a newspaper there's no obligation to respond with a tit-for-tat post.

The Elon Musk “move fast and break things” ethos plays absurdly well with VCs/startup investors. And probably with millionaires who don’t have much domain knowledge about deep sea exploration, but made their money via venture capital and investments (I’m not talking about anybody on this particular trip here, just that many potential clients will have loved all this “disruptive” stuff).

And to be fair to Oceangate, they may have been playing up the “we’re the SpaceX of the seas” stuff for marketing purposes.

Absolutely. I work in an industry where "fail fast" is important and has probably been over-adopted. But 2.5 miles deep in the ocean it needs to be "fail never". The "I break the rules" ethos has turned out to be fatal.