MISSING TITAN SUB - THREAD 5

[tortoishelll]

Thread 5 - a continuation.

My heart aches for those poor men and their families. 💔😔

@Rowgtfc72 The Alvin crew spends so much time working on the sub, checking it over, adapting the gear for next day's dive, I can see how it becomes like a child for them.
I was on the RV Knorr and the ROV (Jason, not Argo on that cruise) pilot on my shift was the guy who piloted the Argo when they discovered the Titanic. He talked quite a bit about it but I was a bit away from him (I was in charge of logging everything we saw on the video feed and time stamping it) and had to really strain my ears to hear it. There is a plaque on the RV Knorr to commemorate its part in the discovery.

Fascinating

I had Robert Ballards books on the discovery of the Titanic and the Bismark. I remember the boots that they found - I guess the body just dissolved away.

Oh - and I made use of Thermus Aquaticus polymerase in a previous life. Extremophiles are fascinating. Life does find a way

Ross Kemp passing the opportunity?
Goes to show that there are calculated risk takers and stupid risk takers. For those afraid of their own shadow they may look the same, but this Titan sub saga is the most recent reminder that there is a HUGE difference between the two groups.
The 4 others should've checked more thoroughly who they trust their lives with. Unfortunately for them and their families, too late for that now.

To be fair the TV company obviously would never have got insurance for the production. And therefore it wouldn't have been up to Ross at all.

Yeah it sounds like it never got as far as Ross, the decision was made well before then. But given the war zones and all sorts of dangerous places he's been, that's even more damning of Titan.

That logic / obsession with "insurance" might work for a package holiday on a beach in a tourist resort, but I very much doubt that Ross Kemp ever got any kind of insurance while spending days making documentaries about all sort of gangsters around the world. Nor would any sky diver or alpiniste get any insurance - their only "insurance" is to not overestimate their own capabilities.

Plenty of risk-takers (of the kind who knows how to stay alive) have passed the opportunity to taste this guy's "innovation".
This guy's delusions got most literally crushed - unfortunately he dragged 4 other people into it.

According to The Guardian "the production company Atlantic Productions advised against travelling on the submersible and raised questions over whether it met industry safety standards" so "Ross rejected the chance". Sounds like that production company deserve their money.

I can assure you TV production companies have to carry out risk assessments and take out insurance and killing TV presenters is not a good look PR wise. You're very naive if you think Ross just strides off gung go without it. And obviously there's a cameraman's life to protect too. Check out what his agent said about it.

Check out Hiscox, one of the leading TV insurers:

https://www.hiscox.co.uk/business-insurance/tv-film-production

Of course they will assess the risks - no one sane would rush into a danger zone without first evaluating the risks.
Unless you "get high on your supply" and start more believing your own sales pitch than these pesky laws of physics, material fatigue etc.

Check out Hiscox, one of the leading TV insurers:

https://www.hiscox.co.uk/business-insurance/tv-film-production

And the Health & Safety Executives guidance setting out the legal responsibilities for TV and Film production. No TV Exec wants to be charged with corporate manslaughter.

https://www.hse.gov.uk/entertainment/theatre-tv/film.htm

Check out Hiscox

I used to work for them. Big players in insurance, they are.

But 2.5 miles deep in the ocean it needs to be "fail never".

This thread which @SheilaFentiman posted is really interesting. I commented on it above because it identifies the many safety failings in the Titan and compares it with the sub James Cameron used to go to the bottom of the Marina Trench.

https://twitter.com/LadyDoctorSays/status/1671700989429297152?s=20

The Marina Trench sub has 4 backup methods to drop weights to get to the surface. The Titan had only one system to rise.

It has 5 methods by which it could be tracked/located when it surfaced. The Titan had none.

The Marina Trench vehicle had 12 thrusters to move around on the ocean floor. The Titan only had 4 - two vertical, two horizontal. As she points out if one of the vertical thrusters fails, it can only then spin round and round on a central axis using one vertical thruster.

Comms should be a never fail and if it does you need several alternate methods. Titan had one comms system which repeatedly failed.

Most deep sea vehicles are round because of the pressure. The Marina Trench sub had a spherical cock pit at the bottom that held one man. The Titan had an elongated middle section - in order to take passengers - which connects to two spherical end pieces. This was a known risk of failure - both at the join and because there was a chunky part holding people that wasn't spherical. Most of the deep sea pressured chambers are spe

It's shocking.

How Oceangate and Stockton Rush can have made a big fuss about they were safety concisious is mind boggling. They must be self deluded.

That’s a great post.

Is he wrong?

He's essentially said that people don't deserve sympathy because they were rich is pretty vile. Sakar's comment about them needing to pay more taxes being a good example. And that people are not sympathetic and interested just because they were rich, as some have implied - people also behaved very similarly about the kids in the cave, or the minors in SA.

He's not making up that people are saying that stuff.

I have been wondering with Challenger and Limiting Factor submersibles - do they have a toilet? Neither look big enough to move around in in any way. In fact Challenger is so small that the pilot has to be in the foetal position.

Challenger only has room for one. Imagine getting stuck at the bottom of the Mariana Trench on your own

In fact Challenger is so small that the pilot has to be in the foetal position.

TBH - anyone who paid £250k and decided to get into that machine needs their head seeing to.
Just as anyone who pays money to do something that is incredibly risky and it turns out that that the risks haven't been mitigated in anyway

There was an incident on Everest many years ago - 1996. 12 people died - not just tour guides but also people who had paid a lot of money to go up there.

Questions were asked about the commercialisation on Everest and the attitudes towards risk. I've been to base camp - and I came across people who were ignoring warnings of altitude sickness because they had paid a lot of money and only had a short vacation time so they were ignoring the warning signs.

I wonder how much the people knew about what they were getting into - and did they know about all the shortcomings and lack of redundancy?

No toilet in Alvin. There's a bottle. I didn't need to use it (now, two children later this would be a different story) but the other scientist I dived with used it twice. The pilot and I just looked discretely away.

From 1:08

I would be EXTREMELY concerned I would get a bad stomach 10 minutes into the descent. I’d have to take a packet of Imodium beforehand I think.

I love all the stories from your experiences on this thread @Igneococcus thank you so much for sharing!

An upset stomach would not be good in this situation@TokyoStories I was fairly careful about what I ate the day before. One of the other women who went diving a few days before me wore Tena ladies because she was terrified of having to wee in front of the others in the sub.
Traditional Alvin packed lunch is a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. I asked for mine without the jelly.

Were you scared at all? I’ve just looked at pictures of Alvin and it doesn’t look as claustrophobic as Titan. Was there room to stand up?

I studied health sciences but sometimes wish I’d chosen an environmental science, so fascinating.

@Igneococcus, your posts have been fascinating. Thanks for sharing them.