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Missing Titanic Submarine- new thread

1000 replies

YoSof · 20/06/2023 22:37

I see the first one is full, is there a new one?

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33
SaxSick · 21/06/2023 10:37

Am I correct in reading that it can only be opened from the inside?

kirinm · 21/06/2023 10:37

SaxSick · 21/06/2023 10:37

Am I correct in reading that it can only be opened from the inside?

No. The opposite. Only from the outside.

Bingbangbongbash · 21/06/2023 10:38

SheilaFentiman · 21/06/2023 10:32

Yes, this is fair enough. This would help if it was on the surface. If it is trapped on the sea bed, I don't think that this would affect the possibility of a rescue.

In all honesty, if it’s trapped on the seabed or entangled in the wreck, there is no way to rescue it. This is something the passengers and crew will know. With most excursions like this, certain risks can be mitigated, but not all of them. What I think people are asking when they point out the lack of safety features is whether the company has cavalier attitude to safety.

Yes, a locator beacon may be useless if the vehicle is trapped in the wreck, but does the lack of one point to other corner cutting? In which case, is there a case to be answered for the families?

Dinobore · 21/06/2023 10:38

OnlyOpenMouthToChangeFeet · 21/06/2023 10:32

Let's hope so. I don't care how many times they mention death in a waiver, I don't know anywhere in the world it's legal to effectively give someone permission to murder you!

I don't know how it works in the US, but it seems the waivers made it clear that the vessel was unregulated- I would have thought if it was regulated and was faulty as it were or used outside of the tested parameters then sure; but if its clearly an experimental sub which hasn't been tested in line with the usual criteria etc then unethical but not sure if illegal. There is of course a very big question around if any authorities were aware of this (presumably so) and whether it should have been shut down or not. Not sure how commercial enterprises are regulated.

JudgeJ · 21/06/2023 10:38

Locutus2000 · 21/06/2023 10:20

They are experienced explorers and one has broken records for deep sea exploration. Someone if not everyone on board will certainly know Morse code!

In this situation I would guess 'SOS' is the limit of attempted communication anyway.

We used to know people who 'talked' in Morse code!

Thebigblueballoon · 21/06/2023 10:40

Wheresthebeach · 21/06/2023 10:34

There's little doubt that the safety measures were insufficient. Which I find really odd, as I'd expect people into extreme adventures to be incredibly safety conscious. People who take risks in water/mountains etc are usually inexperienced and don't understand the nature of the risk they are taking. The whole thing is baffling beyond works. Not doing a pressure test on the fix is just shocking. As are the reports that it wasn't fit to go to the depths they'd planned to go to.

I suspect that such extreme wealth and feelings of invincibility go hand-in-hand. Not to mention they’ll assume they are paying for the best of the best.

KnickerlessParsons · 21/06/2023 10:41

entirely possible that the oxygen could have rapidly depleted, or the device could have sprung a leak. He said whatever happened, it’s likely that it was quick and painless.
I think that's wishful thinking. Chap on R4 this morning was saying that Stockton, at least, would know how to conserve oxygen (didn't explain), and that it could last longer than estimated. Also that the current was only 3-4 knots, so not that fast.
It's a sealed unit, so there must be some condensation from breath and sweat that they could drink, and there's always their wee - although I think current thinking is that drinking wee is not helpful if you're dehydrated.

It's harder with bangs though — you can't make a long and short one as easily. Rhythmical will probably be safer and easier to pick up as intentional. And if you're suffering from dehydration, lack of oxygen etc, the simpler the better I would think.
All the "bangs" are the same length when you're tapping. You don't make long bangs - you leave a longer space between them. Radio signalled SOS could do dashes, but they don't have radio, as we know.

I keep coming back to the toileting situation. They haven't eaten or drunk anything much so you'd hope that bodily excretions weren't too bad - but my god, the smell, and the ammonia.

The whole expedition seems so ill thought through, and badly planned - I can't believe they've got away with running these for so long without being pulled up on something - does no-one audit this kind of thing? I wouldn't even allow myself to be locked in a car in front of my house for 8 hours, with no manual override to get myself out, let alone in a sub a couple of miles under the ocean. They should at least give people the opportunity to decide to open the door and end things quickly for themselves, rather than die slowly and horribly from suffocation/dehydration/starvation/claustrophobia/madness/...

darkmodeon · 21/06/2023 10:41

I don't see why their wealth is relevant. Anyone stuck in a sub has my sympathies.

TokyoStories · 21/06/2023 10:41

Emotionalsupportviper · 21/06/2023 10:33

😂

Sorry - I hope people will forgive me laughing, but I needed that bit of silliness.

Thank you Tokyo. Are you a medic? There is a lot of gallows humour in medicine. It's the only way many of us can cope. (I nearly made a remark myself earlier, but caught myself just in time. There's a narrow line between tension relief and bad taste.)

I am indeed a student medic. I saw the Norse code comment earlier and couldn’t help but laugh.

darkmodeon · 21/06/2023 10:42

KnickerlessParsons · 21/06/2023 10:41

entirely possible that the oxygen could have rapidly depleted, or the device could have sprung a leak. He said whatever happened, it’s likely that it was quick and painless.
I think that's wishful thinking. Chap on R4 this morning was saying that Stockton, at least, would know how to conserve oxygen (didn't explain), and that it could last longer than estimated. Also that the current was only 3-4 knots, so not that fast.
It's a sealed unit, so there must be some condensation from breath and sweat that they could drink, and there's always their wee - although I think current thinking is that drinking wee is not helpful if you're dehydrated.

It's harder with bangs though — you can't make a long and short one as easily. Rhythmical will probably be safer and easier to pick up as intentional. And if you're suffering from dehydration, lack of oxygen etc, the simpler the better I would think.
All the "bangs" are the same length when you're tapping. You don't make long bangs - you leave a longer space between them. Radio signalled SOS could do dashes, but they don't have radio, as we know.

I keep coming back to the toileting situation. They haven't eaten or drunk anything much so you'd hope that bodily excretions weren't too bad - but my god, the smell, and the ammonia.

The whole expedition seems so ill thought through, and badly planned - I can't believe they've got away with running these for so long without being pulled up on something - does no-one audit this kind of thing? I wouldn't even allow myself to be locked in a car in front of my house for 8 hours, with no manual override to get myself out, let alone in a sub a couple of miles under the ocean. They should at least give people the opportunity to decide to open the door and end things quickly for themselves, rather than die slowly and horribly from suffocation/dehydration/starvation/claustrophobia/madness/...

Someone on this thread or the previous one said the pressure would be too much to open from inside anyway. Plus they'd all have to agree .

OnlyOpenMouthToChangeFeet · 21/06/2023 10:43

Wheresthebeach · 21/06/2023 10:34

There's little doubt that the safety measures were insufficient. Which I find really odd, as I'd expect people into extreme adventures to be incredibly safety conscious. People who take risks in water/mountains etc are usually inexperienced and don't understand the nature of the risk they are taking. The whole thing is baffling beyond works. Not doing a pressure test on the fix is just shocking. As are the reports that it wasn't fit to go to the depths they'd planned to go to.

The only thing I can think of, is the reason these things aren't done so much more is cost. And the CEO said that the rules and safety procedures just got in the way of getting anywhere. That it would Beatle years to get safety approval, and Titanic would have broken down by then. Fine if you want to do that miui your own life, but not others, whatever they agree to.

https://metro.co.uk/2023/06/20/titanic-sub-ceo-was-worried-about-resurfacing-18980155/

OceanGate Expedition CEO recorded saying: 'Safety is pure waste'

'You know, there's a limit. At some point safety just is pure waste. I mean if you just want to be safe, don't get out of bed.'

https://metro.co.uk/2023/06/20/titanic-sub-ceo-was-worried-about-resurfacing-18980155

OvaHere · 21/06/2023 10:44

Emotionalsupportviper · 21/06/2023 10:10

The CO2 levels will be starting to build up, though - I think it saiid that the "scrubber" which removed the CO2 from the air only had 40 hours working time. High C)2 is as dangerous, if not more so, than low oxygen.

(I apologise if I've misunderstood - I'm not good with technology)

This is a similar situation and explains about the danger of CO2.

Sadly at this point I think there's little hope short of a total miracle.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rescue_of_Roger_Mallinson_and_Roger_Chapman

Rescue of Roger Mallinson and Roger Chapman - Wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rescue_of_Roger_Mallinson_and_Roger_Chapman

Seeingadistance · 21/06/2023 10:45

darkmodeon · 21/06/2023 10:41

I don't see why their wealth is relevant. Anyone stuck in a sub has my sympathies.

And mine.

tortoishelll · 21/06/2023 10:45

If they had a door that could open from the inside, all passengers I assume, would have to agree to do so. It would mean almost instant death. I'd imagine that at least one, If not all of them, are still clinging onto some hope they could be found.

SaxSick · 21/06/2023 10:45

kirinm · 21/06/2023 10:37

No. The opposite. Only from the outside.

Thanks - there's so much confusing information flying about.

SheilaFentiman · 21/06/2023 10:45

darkmodeon · 21/06/2023 10:42

Someone on this thread or the previous one said the pressure would be too much to open from inside anyway. Plus they'd all have to agree .

Indeed re not being able to open the door. Better, if that is a real concern, to suggest people carry fatal drugs with them.

Florissante · 21/06/2023 10:45

Seeingadistance · 21/06/2023 10:45

And mine.

And mine.

AuntieJune · 21/06/2023 10:46

darkmodeon · 21/06/2023 10:41

I don't see why their wealth is relevant. Anyone stuck in a sub has my sympathies.

Well, because they didn't need to be there and they've paid a huge fortune to make a ghoulish trip to a catastrophe site, and now in all likelihood they're going to perish down there too.

Tell you what, I'd probably take passing out on a tiny submarine rather than being in a migrant ship crammed with people that's slowly sinking in a cold sea.

tortoishelll · 21/06/2023 10:46

It's literally horrifying, knowing you are putting yourself into a vessel that can only be opened from the outside. Sad

Coconutsandpalmtrees · 21/06/2023 10:47

I haven't read the full thread so this might already have been posted but the title of a dm (yes I know) headline days 'Titan Five's 'last chance' rescue machinery is flown into Canada airport on colossal US cargo planes'

I'm glad to see that the world (ok not the world but you get what I mean) is rallying round for these people

milkyaqua · 21/06/2023 10:47

darkmodeon · 21/06/2023 10:42

Someone on this thread or the previous one said the pressure would be too much to open from inside anyway. Plus they'd all have to agree .

There isn't a door to open. They are bolted in via a panel, that can only be opened from the exterior by removing the bolts with a special instrument.

starrynight21 · 21/06/2023 10:48

They should at least give people the opportunity to decide to open the door and end things quickly for themselves, rather than die slowly and horribly from suffocation/dehydration/starvation/claustrophobia/madness/...

The vessel can't have doors which open from the inside, because of the huge pressure down there. They are locked in until someone outside opens it.

Wheresthebeach · 21/06/2023 10:48

OnlyOpenMouthToChangeFeet · 21/06/2023 10:43

The only thing I can think of, is the reason these things aren't done so much more is cost. And the CEO said that the rules and safety procedures just got in the way of getting anywhere. That it would Beatle years to get safety approval, and Titanic would have broken down by then. Fine if you want to do that miui your own life, but not others, whatever they agree to.

https://metro.co.uk/2023/06/20/titanic-sub-ceo-was-worried-about-resurfacing-18980155/

That’s a horrific attitude to safety.

proudmama23 · 21/06/2023 10:49

My dc is a submariner! Not the kind of story we want to read. Thankfully the navy actually tests their subs and they don't use parts from video games consoles!

SunnyEgg · 21/06/2023 10:51

starrynight21 · 21/06/2023 10:48

They should at least give people the opportunity to decide to open the door and end things quickly for themselves, rather than die slowly and horribly from suffocation/dehydration/starvation/claustrophobia/madness/...

The vessel can't have doors which open from the inside, because of the huge pressure down there. They are locked in until someone outside opens it.

Yes
And the door would also have to open outwards, which would be impossible against the pressure

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