'I have no problem with trans women using women's toilets'

[CGF]

https://metro.co.uk/2023/06/19/i-have-no-issue-with-trans-women-using-the-loos-im-in-you-shouldnt-either-18978018/#metro-comments-container

Just seen this article and had to share - I can't believe the hateful language used by the author:

'High profile people, who I consider transphobic, like some politicians and former role models – who aren’t even worthy of the term ‘TERF’ (meaning trans exclusionary radical feminist) as it has ‘feminist’ in the name, and that they most certainly are not – have made it their mission to stoke a panic over trans people'.

But you know they're not women, the difference is that you feel sorry for them so you're willing to lie about it. Unless you think the word woman means something other than adult human female?

Do you feel the same empathy for the women that now have no single-sex spaces to access due to people like you who will advocate for men to be in them?
You surely understand that letting transwomen in then lets ANY man in. After all, gender is literally the feeling in someone's head.

I agree with everything you’ve said. That’s what I meant by nuance - you’re one of the very few posters on this thread whose views accord with mine. Some of the views here are vile - there’s absolutely no excuse for maintaining that a trans woman with a GRC is a man.

Utter tripe indeed. Surely invented by a man? Another extravagant show of disregard for women.

This is your faith based belief, no more than that. As such, it's about as persuasive as it would be if you said there's no excuse for a person not sharing your views on religion.

A grc affords a legal fiction and it affords a stays within equality rights legislation to provide protection against employment discrimination, etc.

It doesn't perform actual magic, nor does it doesn't compel people to deny the evidence in front of their eyes and to frogmarch them into forced speech.

Stays = status

If, according to you, it's not OK to believe a trans woman with a GRC is a man, what you're saying is that it's not OK to believe that a woman is a biologically female person, and that there isn't (and doesn't need to be) a word for a biologically female person.

No.

You can't compel other people to share your religious beliefs. This is grossly offensive.

Well, indeed.

Trans men can get a GRC and become legally considered men, but only because it doesn't make any sense for it to only apply to men wanting to become women.

This ideology has been driven by men wanting to become women. If it had been driven by women wanting to become men, the answer would have been, "No, don't be ridiculous" and that would have been the end of the discussion.

there’s absolutely no excuse for maintaining that a trans woman with a GRC is a man.

But what word can we use then when we need to refer to the sex differences between women (original female meaning) and trans women? Or to the sex sameness between men (original male meaning) and trans women?

Because there are physical, social, political and legal times these things matter and we need the language to express that.

I am genuinely sorry that this causes trans people discomfort, but this is a problem created by the genderist movement when they appropriated the existing words for sex, words that already had significant and needful meanings for material facts that do not disappear simply because someone changes their gender presentation, and insisted these existing words have to mean sonething else.

A transwoman with a GRC is still a man, it's just a legal lie and a way to fake a birth certificate.

Would you really force a woman that requests a female doctor to be treated by a transwoman with a GRC? Or are there times when it's OK to be honest? Is it just when a TW passes that we have to lie?
How about a transwoman rapist with a GRC, should they be sharing cells with women?

Call me vile if you wish, I'm not the one that's opening doors and letting men into women's spaces.

I don't think many people would disagree with you.

What is vile is saying that I'm not a woman anymore. Not having a non scientific view of sex is not vile.

You might find it vile but it's the truth: a man will always be a man, even if he carries around a piece of paper with a legal fiction on it. Every single cell in his body was male, is male and will always be male.

Humans cannot change sex.

Of course it wouldn't. Doing such surgery is a personal choice that absolutely does not create any kind of obligation for anyone else.

What about trans women who no longer have a penis?

A man who lacks a penis for whatever reason is still a man, i e an adult human male. A woman who lacks a vagina is still a woman, i e adult human female.

I agree with everyone who is fed up with this solipsistic view of the world.

’I have no problem with this…’ does not mean that it isn’t a significant problem for many people. Nor does it mean that those people are wrong.

All the attitude tells you is that the person saying it lacks any awareness of or empathy for other people’s lives.

The argument that it would be inhumane is based on problematic logic. It’s kind of ‘well I’ve done it so you have to do what suits me or it would be unfair’ as an argument.

It’s a kind of DARVO.

All the attitude tells you is that the person saying it lacks any awareness of or empathy for other people’s lives.

All the attitude tells you is that the person saying it has awareness of and empathy for a different group of people to you.

It's funny, isn't it? This whole debate proves that you can see immediately who is a woman by the direction that kindness and empathy is expected to take. Women need to be kind and empathetic towards trans women but trans women are not expected to be kind or empathetic towards women.

All the illustration you need.

and for a long time it was a two way street, with most women being more than generous in turning a blind eye to trans women who generally kept their own counsel and were discreet . But all that has changed, and certainly speaking for myself my attitudes have changed too because I am not prepared to be called names like cis, TERF, bigot , Menstruator, chest feeder and all the other spiteful names one minute and then being expected to share my spaces , see my spaces abused, see vunerable women denied safe places like single sex counselling sessions for victims of sexual abuse, refuges, hospital wards, changing rooms, women only social groups - even prisons and the WI, be mocked, have the language I use about myself twisted into meaningless gobbledegook, be told I don’t understand basic biology by men who claim to have a cervix, periods and go through the menopause.

Bugger off is the politest way I can express my feelings these days. It’s like asking the gazelles to be a bit kinder to the lions and stop running so fast. This gazelle has armed herself with armour plating, stickers, ribbons and is considering an uzi. ( not really with the uzi, I am not a man defaulting to violence as the way to achieve my aims)

Are you implying I’m not a woman @StephanieSuperpowers? Because I can assure you I am. Sorry not to agree with you.

I'm just observing that calls for kindness and empathy go one way only and it's never, ever to the benefit of women. Women are expected to give the kindness (even by other women) but are never the recipients of kindness. So many people wonder how women can have more empathy for transwomen and let them trespass a little further into women's spaces in the name of kindness but you never, never see transwomen being invited to show women kindness by staying out of places where they're not welcome. That's how society works. And that expectation of kindness as a unidirectional social good is how you know who is a man (the recipient of kindness) and who is a woman (the giver of kindness),

You were observing nothing of the sort. You said This whole debate proves that you can see immediately who is a woman by the direction that kindness and empathy is expected to take. Please tell me how that can be construed as anything other than questioning the sex of people whose views differ to yours.

Yeah, you can see that transwomen are men and everyone know it because kindness and empathy go from women to men. Even if we pretend to think that transwomen are women, the way that kindness is supposed to go shows very well that we know they aren't.

Is that supposed to make any sense?