The head of the IOPC has been charged with raping a girl under 16

[Clymene]

Michael Lockwood.

Fucking hell, the police are riddled with these allegedly rapey men

Post edited by MNHQ

ChateauMargaux

No one is saying that victims/survivors of sexual violence will be classed as a predator

AutumnCrow
What part of 'No' is he struggling with?

The fact that it is a chat forum and I am free to post so long as I adhere to the talk guidelines set by MNHQ

PegasusReturns

Should I share my experiences of barristers and solicitors.........?

I'll leave that to a different thread.

The part many men struggle with?

Same as many men not allowing women to talk amongst themselves without a man's 'oversight'.

So creepy.

Aye, creepy as fuck.

Equally the same as:

Many women not allowing men to talk without a woman's 'oversight'.

So creepy.

The former director general of the Independent Office for Police Conduct?

What the hell is going on with society?

I understand the principle of innocent until proven guilty but someone in that kind of role shouldn't even be in the bracket of suspicion for charge.

It's awful, sickening, shocking and yet not even remotely surprising all in the same bracket these days.

@Felix125

”Should I share my experiences of barristers and solicitors.........?”

knock yourself out, but know your desperation to deflect is nauseating.

Consider why you feel compelled to defend a group of men far more likely to be involved in domestic and sexual violence than the general public

@coffeedrinkers @medianewbie sounds like we’ve all had the same experiences. At some point it needs to be women like us that challenge it. How that’s done is beyond me at the moment though.

PegasusReturns
Since you're deflecting away from the subject matter of the thread - a male who has never been a police officer being charged, not convicted yet but charged. It isn't a giant step to look at barristers & solicitors moral compass since you brought them into the equation.

Its about 20% of the general public who will be involved in a domestic abuse incident as a perpetrator (ONS). Its about 1% of police who face some sort of criminal charge (for any offence - not just DV cases) as of last year.

So you are far more likely to be a perpetrator of DV as a member of the general public than you are as a police officer.

Just leaving this here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/police-super-complaints-force-response-to-police-perpetrated-domestic-abuse/police-perpetrated-domestic-abuse-report-on-the-centre-for-womens-justice-super-complaint

From the conclusion (PPDA=police perpetrated domestic abuse)

We found that the forces where we conducted case file reviews are not always doing enough to ensure all PPDA cases are properly and impartially investigated. Similarly, these forces were found to not be doing enough to reassure victims that the police response will be impartial and that there are robust safeguards against corruption, collusion and abuse of police powers.

We have found that there are a variety of other risks, beyond corruption, collusion and abuse of police powers, that forces need to take into account in cases of PPDA, as well as additional responsibilities. Police failure to consistently manage all the extra risks and responsibilities associated with PPDA cases is creating and exacerbating poor outcomes for victims and the public.

From the same report:

"....The data we have collected points towards PPDA allegations being no less likely to result in charges being pressed against the suspect than any other domestic abuse allegation..."

@PegasusReturns Thank you for posting this. It is as I suspected, having worked with the Police when employed by Women's Aid during which observed inappropriate 'banter' & a very slack approach to evidence & Court.
Later having experience of the Police as a DV survivor myself I saw how bad it could be from a survivors point of view. Both times, when I expressed my concerns, I was told to shut up. I felt there was some professional collusion outwith the Police (as well as within) so it's helpful to hear a Barrister being honest about their experiences too.

@Felix125 the subject of the thread is the Head of the IOPC, one Micheal Lockwood, being charged with both indecent Assault & Rape. This is both true & relevant. There is an early comment about out 'disgusting rapey men' being in the Police. This is both true & relevant.
Various posters, including myself, then discuss their appalling experiences of the 'justice' system in the UK. This is both true & relevant.

medianewbie

I agree - so it follows that if the discussion then moves to how bad police are in the courts & judicial process as being true and relevant - then the behaviour of barristers and solicitors in the court & judicial process becomes true and relevant. Particularly when barristers were brought into the discussion by another poster.

AlisonDonut
Well no, as women not allowing men to talk without oversight doesn't happen does it?

It seems to on here.

Of course you are. If we only listen to opinions or information that echo what's already in our head, then we can never expand outside our own world. We can all learn from other people's experience and knowledge. It's good to be challenged by other people's opinions, as long as they're not abusive or oppressive. That's how we test and develop our own beliefs.

my heart, as we used to say in the army, pumps purple piss (for you)

You can't handle the fact that we know men in positions of authority (ab)use that authority (given to them by society) to abuse women. You know that too, and certainly many senior police know that too.

So in this tiny corner of internetland where we do have the power to call you out on every single statement, you don't like it? You know where the exit is.

We found that the forces where we conducted case file reviews are not always doing enough to ensure all PPDA cases are properly and impartially investigated.

I'll also draw resident plod's attention to this part. again. (it's from the post by @Clymene )

Brefugee

There are all sorts of people who are placed in positions of authority, who abuse that position. Its not just men. We have already mentioned on here women teachers, nurses, carers & cleaners who steal from vulnerable people and caught on hidden cameras. Both men & women do this, its not just a 'men' problem.

I'm not saying I don't like being called out or argued with over the relevant subject matter. That's how a discussion forum works. What I don't agree with is not being allowed to talk on here and simply receiving abusive comments (as above).

And if you want to mock that by saying "...my heart, as we used to say in the army, pumps purple piss (for you)..." and not calling it out then are you condoning it? Its a bit like your references to police not calling out the bad behaviour of other cops.

We found that the forces where we conducted case file reviews are not always doing enough to ensure all PPDA cases are properly and impartially investigated.

However:

"....The data we have collected points towards PPDA allegations being no less likely to result in charges being pressed against the suspect than any other domestic abuse allegation..."

So there is no conspiracy here then.

Lost of cases are not properly investigated. They should be, but there are a whole host of reasons for that. A lot of that is down to resources, time, safeguarding issues taking police away from that investigation and being able to cover all lines of enquiry. We are under resourced and can't cope with the jobs coming in - let alone investigate the ones we already have.

We go to a pub fight - in theory all 200 people in that pub are witnesses to it (if they are not suspects). Would you expect us to get statements from all 200 people? And if so, when do we get the time to do that especially if the offence is time barred?

@Felix125

you seem to be struggling with comprehension. The subject of the thread is the depravity of the person responsible for overseeing the organisation mandated with investigating serious police conduct.

Naturally, that has led to a discussion of police misconduct, due to his role in setting standards for the police through the recommendation of remediation. That’s not deflecting.

I didn’t bring barristers and solicitors into the equation, other than to specify how I have directly experienced so much police conduct. But as I say if you want to share your experiences go for it. Unlike you, I won’t be supporting men who commit male violence, whatever they might do for a living.

PegasusReturns
Unlike you, I won’t be supporting men who commit male violence, whatever they might do for a living.

And where have I done this exactly - since you're accusing me of it?

I won't deflect from the subject matter further - but if people want to know my experiences of solicitors & barristers, they can ask.

@Felix125 so, you 'agree' with me that, eg the behaviour of barristers / the judicial process is relevant. Yet in your further post very shortly after you refer to any discussion of barristers as thread 'deflection' but say we can 'ask you if we want to know'. I think you've got a bit muddled here ?