The head of the IOPC has been charged with raping a girl under 16

[Clymene]

Michael Lockwood.

Fucking hell, the police are riddled with these allegedly rapey men

Post edited by MNHQ

Fucking hell, the men mansplaining on this thread should be ashamed of themselves.

@onefinemess most rape cases do not collapse though. The conviction rate at trial for rape is 68%. This is lower than the all-crime conviction rate of 83% but is not at all in line with what you claim.

@onefinemess .. why are you deflecting.. why are you saying 'IF'.. we believe.

And @Felix125 .. tagging you too..

75% of teachers are female. Research shows that somewhere between 4% and 40% of grooming cases are female, depending on the research. There is also some research that shows a disproportionate of media attention given to female teachers who groom compared to male teachers, a disproportionate share of media given to male victims of sexual violence (sometimes ascribed to the fact that underaged abuse of boys is abhorrent whereas abuse of girls is more understandable).

The bias of the media does not prove that women are more likely to commit sexual offences..

Somewhere between 90% and 99% of sexual offences are commited by men.

https://supportingsurvivors.humboldt.edu/statistics#:~:text=An%20estimated%2091%25%20of%20victims,99%25%20of%20perpetrators%20are%20male.

https://www.abs.gov.au/media-centre/media-releases/97-cent-sexual-assault-offenders-are-male

The fact that you can easily find media reports of sexual offences by women, does not change these statistics.

And why are you bring these examples to this thread?

ChateauMargaux
And why are you bring these examples to this thread?

Because the question was asked:

Any comment on those statistics, @onefinemess? I'll put money on none of those being committed by women.

So, that was a few examples just from a quick google search to answer that point.

ChateauMargaux

Its doesn't make it right or acceptable that it goes on - why these teachers who are placed in a position of responsibility abuse their power and prey on vulnerable people in their care.

And for the other teachers who work in the same schools, who must know that it is going on and say nothing - so are they just as bad?

And who do we know are going to be the 'good teachers' or the 'bad teachers'? Should we just not trust any of them until it all gets sorted out?

The same with nurses - Beverly Allit & Lucy Letby

There are 'bad people' in any organisation, not just police. If i see anything happening in front of me - I will call it out. What I don't get is some people on here (not you) automatically assuming I wont and that I am part of the problem. That I have personally lost the faith of 12 million people by saying that we (on here) should remain impartial during an ongoing investigation.

I have given a basic example of how I deal with a victim/survivor of such a crime - and this is how I expect other cops to deal with it too.

You are misquoting me, @Felix125 . Here is my actual post, when I was asking for that poster's comments on the number of murders and rapes in 2021/22.

Quote

How many of those 710 murders were by men?

From the Statista website - Rape offences have increased dramatically in England and Wales since 2012/13 when there were 16,038 incidents. After this year, rape offences substantially, reaching a high of 70,330 offences in the 2021/22 reporting year, an increase on the year when there were 55,678 offences

Any comment on those statistics, @onefinemess ? I'll put money on none of those being committed by women.

Unquote.

Now perhaps I should have said 'those statistics' to make it clear that I was referring to rapes, not the number of sexual assaults on children by women. My point was that that poster, and you, are getting worked up about sexual assaults by women, ('dozens' according to her, although no evidence forthcoming) but are curiously quiet about the number of rapes which let's face it, are committed by men; and alleged rapes by a man are what this thread is about (or was, until the deflection onto 'well some women do it as well' started). And you're still at it in your last post.

That I have personally lost the faith of 12 million people by saying that we (on here) should remain impartial during an ongoing investigation

It's not about you and your hurty feelz, @Felix125 . It's about an entire institution that fails and continues to fail women, sometimes very badly.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain

You won't have any rapes by women as it can only be committed by a man.

You don't say 🙄

MrsDanversGlidesAgain
That I have personally lost the faith of 12 million people by saying that we (on here) should remain impartial during an ongoing investigation

It's not about you and your hurty feelz,@Felix125. It's about an entire institution that fails and continues to fail women, sometimes very badly.

My point is that everyone seems to jump on a bandwagon - sees me as a police officer - and automatically assumes that I am just as bad. I have described the way I do things and they way I expect any one of my colleagues to do them also. And none of my colleagues deviate from this. So from your point of view can we agree that we are doing it right? And will it push us in the direction of restoring faith?

Well that's why you wont have any committed by women - I don't quite understand your point?

But you can have other sexual offences that can be committed by women (such as teachers) that do occur. Does that mean we should distrust all teachers as we can't tell who are good or bad?

Well yeah, Felix. It's hard not to jump on the bandwagon of APAB when every story we hear about them seems to confirm it.

I have described the way I do things and they way I expect any one of my colleagues to do them also. And none of my colleagues deviate from this. So from your point of view can we agree that we are doing it right?

I have no idea who you are, what force you work for, how you and your colleagues operate, so that's an unanswerable question.

Felix polices every single thread on here to discredit every single thing that any woman sees, thinks or experiences. There is no safe space from Felix on Mumsnet, because he literally cannot just allow us to have our own experiences.

Some, not me obviously, might say it was a power and oppression kink.

We have asked him to stop, some pleaded with him to stop, some have never come back after his behaviour and yet still he comes on, telling us we are all wrong and what we experienced didn't happen.

I am still convinced that some force somewhere uses his posts to get higher up the Stonewall index and it is part of his actual role to do so.

Suck it up ladies, whatever you do, wherever you go, Felix will be right here waiting for you.

Every breath you take, every post you make, he will be watching you.

Most rape cases do collapse, as in, they never make it to trial.

If we assume all reported cases of sexual assault by men are true. If we assume the "real" figure is ten times higher than reported.

If we assume each incident is a different man, so no repeat offenders.

If we assume THE worst possible case scenario, with the greatest number of victims and perpetrators.

It still only accounts for 2% of men, and 2% of women. What that means is 98% of us are not, and never will be a victim of sexual abuse. 98% of all men are not involved and have never abused anyone.

The level of hysteria on this thread is astonishing.

No wonder young men are in the midst of a mental health crisis. Imagine being branded a sexual predator just for existing!

Those of you who believe that "we don't know which men". At what point do you accuse your sons, fathers, brothers and husbands of being a sexual predator?

Presumably you NEVER allow yourselves or any female to be alone with ANY men.

How do you stop your sons from sexually assaulting their sisters?

Must get exhausting having to constantly monitor your husbands to stop them assaulting every female they know.

You either believe this nonsense about "not knowing which men", or you don't. But if you believe it, explain to me what you say to your sons when you accuse them of being predators. And DONT cop out by saying "we teach them to be respectful and aware of their power, and to call out bad men", because that's not answering the question.

Explain to me what you say when you accuse them of being sexual predators.

See how fucked up your point of view is?

Police Officers are fine. Men are fine. Teenage boys are fine. We don't have a problem with men. We have a problem with the vilification of men.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain
I have no idea who you are, what force you work for, how you and your colleagues operate, so that's an unanswerable question.

The changes that have been made include always believing the victim from the outset and not challenging their account, not putting any pressure on them to go through the medical procedure or go to court, have a specific SARC unit to attend for any medical procedure, EEK (Early Evidence Kits) always available. access to a number of support agencies, have an allocated ISVA, regular updates for the victim/survivor, early arrest of the suspect as they will also be in a forensic time window, use of dry cells and medical swabs from them, specific police teams to investigation (CID, DV, CAVA), specialist CPS lawyers for rape cases, specialised rape & sexual violence courts with a host of special measures (video links etc)

These are the changes that have been made - what other suggestions or measures would you like to see?

The procedures above are the ones which I follow as do my colleagues.

AlisonDonut
Its a chat forum and where have I said anywhere that you are all wrong?
And can I not talk about my own experiences, or is that not allowed?

*It still only accounts for 2% of men, and 2% of women. What that means is 98% of us are not, and never will be a victim of sexual abuse. 98% of all men are not involved and have never abused anyone

The level of hysteria on this thread is astonishing*

So how do women tell how a man is a member of the 2% or a member of the 98%? I think I've asked before. Any luck with those 'dozen' of links, BTW?

Minus points for getting 'hysteria' into a thread on a site overwhelmingly female.

Police Officers are fine. Men are fine. Teenage boys are fine. We don't have a problem with men. We have a problem with the vilification of men

Yep, absolutely. Sexist misogynist banter between police officers, taking pictures of dead murder victims, sexual assault, 77,000 rapes a year, 2 women a week murdered...all in our imagination, silly hysterical wimmin that we are. How dare we vilify those pure upstanding souls; who BTW, are all someone's father, husband, son or brother.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain

Same with teachers and nurses - how do we tell the good ones from the bad ones...?

Yep, absolutely. Sexist misogynist banter between police officers, taking pictures of dead murder victims, sexual assault............

And they have been rightly prosecuted and been kicked out for it. We don't have sexist or misogynist banter on our shift - if it did occur i would flag it up. The only thing we have on our whats-app group is who is bringing some milk in for the shift. But yet I am classed as part of the problem?

Yes 2 women murdered a week is an awful statistic - but 70% of murder victims are male. And yes, murdered my men on 99% of the cases, but it shows that men are just as terrified about being attacked.

If we believe EVERY report of abuse made by a woman, and if we also believe that 90% of offence are never reported. Worst case scenario, It still only accounts for 2% of the male population. 98% of our fathers, brothers, husbands and sons are not involved.

Your numbers are wrong @onefinemess

Estimates of numbers of men attracted to children is about 1-5%. Your 98% of men may be not attracted to children. It's obviously extremely difficult to measure that and study it because of censure. However, spend any time in Thailand and you can believe it.

When you ask the right questions, about rape, quite a high number of men say they would if they could get away with it. Somewhere around a quarter to a third, depending on how you phrase the question. If you ask about having sex with an unconscious woman, or holding a woman down, if there were guaranteed to be no consequences, about 3 in 10 would.

That's borne out in places with fewer consequences. War-zones, places with poor women's rights, within relationships, countries with a culture of prostitution.

Even if your statistics were correct that means on every train, every plane, most workplaces, most shops, university, pub etc. there is a rapist. And very little is done to protect women from this. Except telling them what to do to not be the woman who he selects that evening. Not preventing rape, preventing you from being the victim. So he chooses a woman or girl who is more vulnerable, with fewer resources.

MrsTerryPratchett
So 30% of all men are potential rapists.

So how are we going to prevent them from acting out their desires?

I've asked you before not to talk to me. I'm not interested in talking to you.

@onefinemess .. we need to be able to talk about the fact the 1 in 3 women will experience sexual violence with little chance of ever getting justice without having to put the feelings of men first. Instead of feeling that they are being accused of being a sexual predator, men and boys should instead consider the impact of the real risk to women and the fear that women live with instead of putting their hurt feelings at the centre of the story.

I can understand that completely.

What part of 'No' is he struggling with?

MrsTerryPratchett
I've asked you before not to talk to me. I'm not interested in talking to you.

Its a chat forum - it doesn't work that way.

But I take your point - I have no right to have an opinion and have no right to take part in such a debate because I am a man and/or a police officer.

Thanks @AutumnCrow

You'd think my 'no' would be sufficient.

Agree, rotten to the core.

I’m so sick of police lying. As a barrister I’ve seen police withhold evidence; fabricate evidence; lie about incidents; assault/threaten/harass defendants and witnesses; send rape threats/dick pics to vulnerable women; shag mistresses whilst on duty; engage in gratuitous violence; “lose” original statements; “forget” to switch on/retain cctv; doctor surveillance records and on and on.

If you don’t deal with this stuff day in day out you wouldn’t believe how awful it is.