The head of the IOPC has been charged with raping a girl under 16

[Clymene]

Michael Lockwood.

Fucking hell, the police are riddled with these allegedly rapey men

Post edited by MNHQ

Shit rises and it always has.

Until we as a society learn to mistrust 'charismatic' men with obvious 'leadership qualities' aka arrogance and glib public speaking skills, things will never improve.

We need to focus on calmer, quieter people with demonstrable moral character. Men who can't honour their commitments to pregnant wives are unable to be of sufficient moral fibre to run a country.

Anyone who seeks power for its own sake should never ever be put in charge of anything.

Yes somehow that just seems worse but also explains a lot.

Police officers get away with rape over and over. Well makes sense when the person investigating is doing the same - over and over.

Makes me so angry

Some men who worked as Police Officers have been convicted of various types of sexual offences.

Please stop using phrase like "Police Officers get away with rape", they don't. Some people who work as police officers have committed offences, most have not.

There have been literally dozens of highly publicised cases of female teachers engaging in grooming and the sexual abuse of children in recent months.

Do you say "Teachers get away with abusing children over and over" ?

This casual labelling of anybody who works in a certain profession as abusers MUST stop.

I get the impression that the people who don't get it are never going to get it. Like banging your head against a brick wall. It's shockingly arrogant.

I'm not blaming the police for the low rate of prosecutions. C(ouldn't) P(rosecute) S(atan) is a thing for a reason.

But if you go back and read what coffeedrinkers wrote, and several other people you might understand what we are saying. If the reaction when women do summon up the courage to report things to the police weren't fobbed off and disbelieved and treated as though they are scum for being attacked, we may not hold them in quite so much contempt.

if you understand why women don't want any male bodied men in their spaces, you will understand why women don't trust any police: the simple fact is we can't know which ones we can trust.

So until a rigorous pruning of the bad ones has taken place, I'm ok with not trusting any, just in case it backfires. And that doesn't mean i won't call on them in an emergency. But i can't rely on them.

Bloody well said, @ChateauMargaux

@justiceandtruth
I hope the truth will prevail.

Good and bad apples in every profession.

Best to just focus on the case in hand not tar everyone with the same brush

This.

I've worked in shelters, rehab, prisons, SS and every day you see SWs, paramedics, nurses, shelter workers subjected to the same violence, abuse and shit conditions as the police. Typically for worse pay and with the same shit from the public.

The only profession that seems to get a pass for acting like twats because of it are the police. SWs don't beat people in vans and call each other 'rapist' for a laugh.

Let's actually name what it is. Male violence in male institutions. Giving each other a pass. The only profession which gets similar is the army, for broadly the same reasons. Groups of men in stressful situations with a lot of power...

@Usernamenotavailable - I assume it's my case you are talking about? If so, yes, Police told me that 'the CPS wouldn't take this on'. But I've no idea what exactly the Police investigation consisted of, or whether all facts were actually passed across to the CPS to formally consider or not as the Police didn’t tell me. It involved 2 Police forces & there was very little, very poor communication all by phone & almost nothing in writing. However, I do know that they were aware of Him admitting - - in writing & at the time - to the sexual assaults of me as a 4, & 5, year old, & another specific further rape as a 15 year old (he again had access to me as a fellow family member - and again he admitted the incident but again he claimed it was consensual). So, for all that not to result in the CPS taking the decision to at least bring him to trial, something has gone very wrong. No chance of justice for me, & it's also allowed him to continue his behaviour.

Re Scotland: so, because ONE case (out of dozens I dealt with) went to trial, it makes it OK that so many others didn't? On behalf of those traumatised young women, I really can't agree.

So you don't trust female police officers?

You think any woman who works for the police isn't really a woman and thinks the same as a "man" ?

*So you don't trust female police officers?

You think any woman who works for the police isn't really a woman and thinks the same as a "man" ?*

I think that's pretty much what that poster said, yes.

I might have missed it, but are women officers calling this behaviour out publicly? or is the culture so entrenched that they daren't or they can't?

I'll add to what I said upthread - police are supposed to stand between us and criminal anarchy. Not fucking join in with it because they can and there's no comeback.

So please, can we stop with this "mumsnet logic" that ALL men are predators, that all our sons, husbands, fathers, brothers, boy scout leaders and teachers are misogynistic bastards and can't be trusted

How do we tell the difference between the nice guys and the bastards? I mean, I know on threads like this we always get the My Nigel Wouldn't Do Anything Like That, but how do the rest us know Nigel's a nice guy?

don't talk rubbish.

I do not trust any police officer to do their job properly with no fear or favour. I have repeatedly said why and I'm not going into all that again. Search for our Police-Monitor, i've had the discussion with him so much i simply cannot go into it again.

There are plainly and clearly some good officers. As with men (i do not believe all men are predators, i don't know which ones are so until i know i am wary under certain circumstances when i meet a strange man).

Again. For the last time: we don't know which police officer is a "bad apple". Enough of them to worry senior police though who have talked about it openly. And therefore until i know they're a good one, i will be wary and assume that they are a bad one until i know otherwise. It is the only sensible option. In an emergency i'd just have to hope for the best.

As for the fact that some are female? it makes no difference. At this stage if you are not part of the solution (reporting the behaviours that we have discussed here ad infinitum) then you are part of the problem. And having been a woman in uniform, i know how hard it is to do that. And still - by now they must know that it is the only thing to do.

OK here goes. When i was in the army my CO - the chief person on the whole base, told me and one other private (lowest rank possible) to go to the stores and get our trousers changed for smaller ones because he liked to "look at girls' arses"

We were stunned, shocked, angry and paralysed by the fear and knowledge that reporting this would put the kybosh on our career. In the end i did mention it because we were lucky to have a female major on the camp. She was an old cow in many respects but she did expect us to be treated with the respect and dignity being in uniform deserved. no idea what happened but he barely ever spoke to any of the women from then. Which didn't help our careers.

So i get that female officers find it difficult. At this stage, however, with the spotlight on this behaviour, i hope that female police officers will do their duty and protect the civilian population from their rapist colleagues.

How do we know which female teachers are not going to groom and sexually assault our children?

I could link dozens of articles and court cases where women (and teachers are mostly women, wonder if that's because the profession attracts a particular sort of parson) have been convicted of sexually assaulting children. And I guess 90% of women who assault children are never reported also.

I know on threads like this we always get the "My child's teacher wouldn't do anything like that. But how do the rest of us know Miss Jones is a nice lady?

See how easy it is to switch a narrative.

If we believe EVERY report of abuse made by a woman, and if we also believe that 90% of offence are never reported. Worst case scenario, It still only accounts for 2% of the male population. 98% of our fathers, brothers, husbands and sons are not involved.

In 2022, we had 710 murders in the UK, also in 2022 we had 1012 people killed from falling down stairs.

"But we don't know which stairs are dangerous", I here you cry.

@onefinemess I really don't get your point. Of course all sections of society have individuals out to course harm. Of course a predator could get a job in a school just to take advantage IF they pass a dbs check. If those checks showed that said person had a criminal record then that would put a stop to that, as it should.
This should also be the case in the police service but as shown in recent years that Isn't happening. A policemen exposed himself in McDonald's and still kept his job meaning he was able to kidnap and murder an innocent woman. Another one.. The uks most prolific rapist.. reported numerous times yet kept his job. Head of the IOPC accused of rape, never investigated.
Of course these are extreme examples but they were hiding in plain sight, joked about like it's blokes bantering in a pub.
When you add to that women are being let down again and again of course people's trust is zero.
When I wrote on here that I walked into a police station covered in injuries I'm talking ripped genitalia, black and blue. Covered head to toe in evidence, the police didn't give a shit! If anything I was an annoyance, They knew full well I was a teenager with no one. No family support literally no one.
It was Rape crisis uk who organised my ISVA. Again extreme but not uncommon. Nearly every woman I know has a story to tell, that's not ok.
Of course on the other side of that you could argue my case is now going to court because of a policeman (yep man... I know there not all bad.) But it took a lot to get here and I've no doubt that the only reason we are at this stage is because of the amazing work of charity workers who wouldn't take it no for an answer. Also unacceptable.

*In 2022, we had 710 murders in the UK, also in 2022 we had 1012 people killed from falling down stairs.

"But we don't know which stairs are dangerous", I here you cry.*

Quite possibly the most ridiculous 'comparison' I've ever read on here. Have one of these 🙄

I could link dozens of articles and court cases where women (and teachers are mostly women, wonder if that's because the profession attracts a particular sort of parson) have been convicted of sexually assaulting children. And I guess 90% of women who assault children are never reported also

I look forward to your dozens of links.

profession attracts a particular sort of parson

Now there's a Freudian slip.

Worst case scenario, It still only accounts for 2% of the male population. 98% of our fathers, brothers, husbands and sons are not involved

And I'll reiterate my question. How do I know what man is in the 2%, and what man is in the 98%?

How many of those 710 murders were by men?

From the Statista website - Rape offences have increased dramatically in England and Wales since 2012/13 when there were 16,038 incidents. After this year, rape offences substantially, reaching a high of 70,330 offences in the 2021/22 reporting year, an increase on the year when there were 55,678 offences

Any comment on those statistics, @onefinemess ? I'll put money on none of those being committed by women.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11435927/Married-female-teacher-jailed-affair-schoolgirl-banned-life-teaching.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11435927/Married-female-teacher-jailed-affair-schoolgirl-banned-life-teaching.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/woman-jailed-sex-student-pupil-teacher-relationship-a7986976.html

You don't have to look too hard to be honest

So which teachers cab we trust - or should we not trust any, just to be on the safe side?

coffeedrinkers

But if that was some time ago - things have changed, procedures have changed:

The changes that have been made include always believing the victim from the outset and not challenging their account, not putting any pressure on them to go through the medical procedure or go to court, have a specific SARC unit to attend for any medical procedure, EEK (Early Evidence Kits) always available. access to a number of support agencies, have an allocated ISVA, regular updates for the victim/survivor, early arrest of the suspect as they will also be in a forensic time window, use of dry cells and medical swabs from them, specific police teams to investigation (CID, DV, CAVA), specialist CPS lawyers for rape cases, specialised rape & sexual violence courts with a host of special measures (video links etc)

These are the changes that have been made - what other suggestions or measures would you like to see?

The procedures above are the ones which I follow as do my colleagues.

You don't have to look too hard to be honest

That's three. And three too many, before anyone starts. We were told there were 'dozens.'

Is it me or is there some deflection to 'women do it too' happening on this thread?

Already explained further down this is a current open investigation. Meaning statements, ISVAS. Being believed and supported is current day. In the last few years I have met some decent officers who have been very supportive I've also dealt with a lot of defensive bullshit from CURRENT officers. It really has been 50/50.
There will be a court case . That is because charity workers and a solicitor have worked there arses of for me, Not because the police wanted to.
I'm no longer a teenager like I've said, I grew up and demand justice.
For all of the terrified girls out there who were once me.. I'm glad changes have been made. I'm sure your in it for the right reasons. But speak up when you see it not working. All I've been met with is defensive crap from the people there to protect. Thank god for lawyers who will hold these men and the police that let them get away with it accountable.