Should I move to America or stay in U.K.?

[LittleGreyGoose]

Hello,

I am applying for a fiancé visa to move to America (once granted I would emigrate, marry my American fiancé, and then adjust my status to permanent resident). I would love some perspective, not only from those who have moved / already live there but also anyone who might be planning (or dreaming!) of emigrating. We could try to settle in the U.K. instead so I want to know I'm doing the right thing, purely from a geographical / political / future-proofing move. I'm trying to look at this dispassionately but I’m sleep-deprived and dealing with post-birth hormones so I can’t think straight!

For context we have a baby and a toddler and would be moving to a liberal city but in a republican state. He has a house there already in a good neighbourhood. Currently I’m renting.
For more context he’s great but I’d be foolish to not consider what happens if it doesn’t work out (I do know that my resident status would be permanent after a few years and not reliant upon being married, for example). For even more context, I have lived in other countries before and am an adventurer at heart so the move itself isn’t an issue! Just now I have children so don’t want to mess it up.

Some initial thoughts:

• I have plenty to like about the U.K. but it feels like we are on a steady and slow decline. This makes me feel emigrating is the best option but I also foresee America having its own wobble. Am I naive to think that America is still a land of opportunity or should we go with ‘better the devil you know Britain’?

• while I have no faith in British politics any more, and still rage about the foot shooting mess that is Brexit, it's not exactly rosy in the US either and if Trump gets back into the White House then will I have just jumped from the frying pan into the fire?

• Or, am I just being melodramatic?! I do worry about forthcoming political and social unrest in America and joke to my fiancé about getting 'militia ready' and how I’m lucky I still have my collection of 90s grunge army jackets, but there are credible murmurings of concern for the stability of the country. At least in the U.K., even if everything is a bit shit, I don't worry about this.

• on a more personal level I’ll be leaving a job that I love and will have to wait until I’m given a green card before being able to work in America (which could take up to a year after we get married). This is fine, in theory - it'll be good to spend that time adjusting with the children, and I may even retrain into something more AI proof (currently in comms / writing). I guess I'm just nervous because I'm choosing to leave employment and a career (albeit temporarily) and be reliant upon someone else.

• and finally, I guess there are all the potential administrative and logistical complications of joining forces with a damn yankee (otherwise known as marrying my fiancé). The kids already have American and British citizenship / passports, U.K. bank accounts, and NHS numbers as well as American social security numbers - I want them to have options to settle in either country as they grow, but am I missing anything?

Thanks for reading of you made it this far! Any insight? Anything I haven’t thought of? Am I focusing on the wrong things? Please be kind. I’m at the tale end of PND and catastrophising like crazy!

Speaking as someone who moved from the UK to America:

• there is a massive divide here. If you are privileged you have good healthcare, you get more than 2 weeks holiday, etc. The issue with the US is that it isn't bad for everyone. If it were then it would be easier to persuade more people to change things. Instead, it turns into "fuck you, I've got mine."
• school shootings should, obviously, never happen. However it's important to recognise the importance of race and location when it comes to gun violence. Unfortunately, Texas does not stack up well there and a recentish Texas Tribune piece shows a clear correlation between gun violence increasing and looser gun laws in the state. If you were moving to Massachusetts, this would be an entirely different question.
• the issue of one spouse being trapped is inherent to this type of relationship. One of you is going to take that risk. The question is who and what legal protections you can take to insulate yourself.
• there are cultural issues in different workplace settings in terms of work expectations. There are parts of the finance and tech world where the expectations are extreme, especially in NY/SF/LA. However, that's not universally true.
• Proximity: it's a big deal to travel home. It's expensive, and it's long.
• re: not being in Europe: do you actually take advantage of the proximity? Do you travel to specific destinations for the culture and attractions? If you do you might miss that. However in my experience a lot of Brits do underestimate how much there is to see and do within North America. And of course if your holiday plans are more "beach" or "skiing" rather than "go to Rome," you have plenty of options. The limiting factor we have found is that internal flights in the USA continually seem to be less service for more money.

Yes, I liked Austin when I visited, there are some beautiful places and it had a real outdoorsy vibe, as well as some quirky places.

And yes, I think that's what I was hoping to hear - the opportunities in America have always felt more tangible. In the U.K. everything just feels a little... small. A hustle. The work / life balance just that bit harder to achieve. Every time I've visited the states I just get a sense of optimism that resonates with me. Maybe that's unrealistic and would fizzle out when living there but I'm a natural networker, always happy making contacts, so I hope that holds me in good stead, especially as I figure out what to do in my career.

Thanks for the positive post :)

@ZZTopGuitarSolo thanks for your posts :) And yes, I've never lived near family or even friends at one point with a newborn so I similarly began building a support network (which I found both easy to do with children because you have something in common, but also hard because the only thing you have in common are children! I'm still figuring out the balance). But the neighbourhood is family orientated, with good schools and some outdoorsy amenities, and I like the natural ease of American friendliness so hope that I'll find my tribe.

One thing I guess I don't know enough about (and may be one for the Living Overseas forum) but are mum / baby groups the same in America as in the U.K.? It has been a great way for me to get out and have some structure to my day, as well as meeting other mums - not sure if they do things differently over there. Something for me to consider anyway.

It sounds like you want to go. What suits some won’t suit others.

If you’ll be more positive in US that’s a bonus

I think this thread has been like that scene in Friends when Phoebe tells Rachel she isn't pregnant, just to test her reaction - Rachel is disappointed and so when discovers she is pregnant knows it's what she wants (not that I'm a Friends buff!). All of my posts are making me more certain that America is the way to go, and I'm feeling more confident about the decision - albeit with some great tips to consider.

And exactly - nothing needs to be forever and I can always come home (admittedly this thread has made me realise I should consider potential custody issues in advance with fiancé if things don't work out, but I would hope it wouldn't be acrimonious to that extent)

Thanks for your post :)

Yeah this is why I want to ensure the children have a footprint in both countries, so a move back is swift if the need arises. I will be keeping an eye on instability but honestly, I don't feel stable (for other less militia-based reasons!) in the U.K. But good point re the need to keep the British passports ready to use...

The Trump thing worries me, definitely. Even if he doesn't get in. And similarly the climate. So I'm keeping an open mind with regards to whether Austin will be a 'forever home'.

We chose Austin for various reasons but I think that's the beauty of America is that you can move to a new state and have a completely different experience (from what I gather). So if Texas doesn't work out then in theory we are both happy to move to make it work for us. I'm hoping that's the right attitude rather than sticking somewhere to 'make it work'.

Thanks for your post, some things to consider:)

Hmmm. Which parts of the UK are doing active shooter drills in schools?
only example I have ever come across was, very sadly, a Jewish school, which had experienced anti semitic attacks. Disgraceful but also exceptional.

@newyorker74

Ooh, these are good points. My CV does have some international names on, but this is good to know in advance. I'm a bit worried about a gap in my current CV - it can be explained away easily enough due to child-related issues but I wonder if that will be an issue for American companies (especially seeing as there will be another gap when I move there). Nothing to be done about it I guess. I will start researching companies that I may want to work for and get a feel for what might fit.

Thanks!

One thing to consider is in terms of returning to the UK (if you guys decide to do so) isn't as cut and dried as it appears. The cost and time going back to the UK will be quite a bit more than the US for your future husband at least. Id double check those requirements for awareness purposes. Probably not enough to sway the decision but with everything immigration related, knowledge is power and its worth keeping in touch with changing immigration requirements.

We are headed back to the US next year after a decade in the UK, to a blue state. For us its healthcare access, better career prospects and wages, better housing, better amenities, and better state support for when I am no longer able to work due to medical issues. We've loved our time in the UK but it doesn't suit our needs now. If what the US can offer now suits your life stage, then all the comparisons in the world and hollering about active shooters and Trump don't really matter, you will naturally find your people and community to suit your needs and outlook. There are loads of options for whatever you need to do that, too, whether thats easily moving to a better school district or even another state, finding activities for your kids, paying for private school, getting involved in local politics/issues, finding a part time job, upskilling etc. If you are self directed and tend to make things happen for yourself, then the US is the better option. Given the amount of money flowing into renewables and chips and onshoring though, if you can move into sustainability with some sort of data or tech skills underpinning, that would be smart.

The only other beef I have with the US is the religion thing, and if you are going to be in an area with heavy church attendance/alignment (think Utah and Mormons or Bible Belt with the southern baptists/Pentecostals or anywhere with those newfangled megachurches) and are not religious, be aware that could be limiting on social access or impact every day interactions.

Thanks for this. The quality of education is something I'm obviously keen to explore (it being some way off for our two we have a little bit of time to get it right and move if needs be). I have heard it can vary wildly. But as a sporty person with hopes for the kids to follow (in a non-pushy-stage-mom kinda way) am I right in thinking that the sports opportunities in American schools (especially high school) are much better? As in there are facilities that we could only dream of here affiliated with particular schools and colleges? I should look more into this and not take some of my knowledge from 90s high school films

And thanks for a different reasoning to the gun issue. It really is the only thing that makes me not want to move, but it is good to hear that it's not the norm (although maybe that depends on the state?). And yes, I was surprised that the U.K. does 'active shooter drills' now too (although under different names as you say). So maybe there's no escaping this. I just hate the loss of innocence that comes with a drill to save them from a shooter and how that could affect them mentally as they grow up. But I will research the norm in the schools we're looking into.

Thanks for your posts :)

We weighed the pros and cons.... My partner moved here.

The US looks good, but once you start poking about it's all a front.

Don't buy into the propaganda.

Another very good point. And actually this is probably exactly what I'm doing - hence the thread. I'm looking at this as dispassionately as possible - what is best for me, the children, the family. I am definitely not moving with some woolly romantic notion of a Disney-ending, and a lot of these comments are reinforcing the fact that I will have to work hard to put down roots for myself.

I haven't lived in America before, no, although visited plenty of times. I have emigrated to another country before though and thrived so I'm taking that same (blind) optimism into my new plans!

But you raised a good point, thanks :)

Yes, I hadn't realised that they do these here so that did actually make me do a double take on one of my concerns (the mental toll of doing drills of this nature). I guess I'm weighing up a better quality of life for the children with this undeniably not good quality of life bit! It's good to hear some non-hyperbolic responses about the realities of the drills. Doesn't change my fear but is a good thing to know. Thanks :)

Hi, I never post on here, but I have done almost exactly what you are posting about, to the same city, where still am currently.

I can't work out how to message you directly, but feel free to get in touch with me. I have two primary age children in the American school system and have also worked as a substitute teacher there.

Just to add from that perspective - whilst the gun culture is obviously a worry, at a school level there are drills for many situations, the same as the UK. It would just be a generic 'lockdown drill' to them and neither of my kids have ever commented on/or been bothered by any of the various drills they have at school in the US.

Also, if your fiancé is American, he will be very familiar with the health care system and navigating it, which was the part I found the most difficult. The actual care itself, (with the obvious proviso of you are fortunate to be covered by a good insurance policy) I have found to be excellent, especially for the children.

Good luck!

Yeah - I'm so aware that I'm moving to a state that holds ideals anathema to mine :( I know I can't be too complacent in this, as it is intrinsic in the identity of those who live there. There has been some good food for thought with regards to Texas Vs Austin, so I Will be researching and as mentioned up-thread I think we would move to a different state if things get worse or don't improve.

So yes, I will miss the closeness of Europe and the history and culture and architecture! This is actually a big thing for me - I love all of that and that it's right here on my doorstep. But, I have experienced a lot of travelling in my life and realise that there is so much to explore in America too, that I'm happy to shift my focus state side! Something about the wide spaces out there speaks to a frontier cowboy deep within that I hadn't realised existed

A million times this. I am a city person - if anything the neighbourhood we will be living in is too suburban for me but I get that with children things have to be slightly different and I can't / don't want to live downtown above some happening nightclub (which is what I'd have done once upon a time). Austin does seem to have a good balance of the two though - wholesome and city life.

@mathanxiety it was both of ours really. We discussed it so long ago when I had just had our first that it made sense, seeing as I couldn't work because of that and he couldn't work because he isn't a resident. We didn't realise how long the process would be though so a lot has happened since, including another child (!) so I guess we're now in a different position with other things to consider. But he certainly hasn't pushed for it and if anything would be happy if we were to remain in the U.K. We are both open to the right opportunities

Thanks for this. I am aware Austin is getting a little more violent, yes. And I'm aware that I simply have no concept of this - I can't, as guns just aren't a thing we think about here. So yes, I will consider this a bit more. Our neighbourhood is safe but my fiancé has a business downtown so it is a worry.

And yep, I am taking all of that into consideration! I hadn't realised there's an Overseas forum so will pop over there when I've done some more research.

RE: sports amenities, yes, they are far FAR better. In the town we lived in before we moved here I had, as a member of the general public, access to FOUR different collegiate swimming pools within a 10 minute drive, for lap swimming, all competitive standard, clean, well maintained and not heaving with people. There will be a competitive sports league or access for whatever your child wants to pursue, although certain states and regions may tilt towards/make available certain sports over others (lacrosse and field hockey in the northeast/mid atlantic, football in texas, ice hockey/wrestling/skiing upper midwest, water polo/swimming and baseball in the West). Every high school has tennis courts and multiple gyms, some have pools. Hell, even the middle school with a few hundred students in the village where my parents live has their own swimming pool and top-line weights room, tennis courts, and basketball/baseball/football/soccer fields.

It will get expensive if your child moves into traveling team sports, though. I traveled thousands of miles in the summers for my sport between the ages of 11 and 14, but it taught me a lot about dedication, practice, focus, and striving to win while working as part of a team. People may say that is a very unique American outlook and perhaps it is, but its served me well in life.

@anonuser63732 can I also ask why you're looking into homeschooling and what is it like out there? (Realise that latter part is a vague question!)

My American SIL has just visited, back in the UK since pre-Covis. She is DESPERATE to move back to the UK. Feels scared in her own country.

I grew up in Austin, and I lived for several years in the U.K., and have lived in both with two primary age children in the past 6 years. (Now live in a another European country)

My experience is that the if you are poor, it’s probably safer in the U.K. (universal credit, better tenants rights, etc)

but if you can make any decent money, quality of life is much better in the US. I found healthcare and public education to be better in Austin than in the U.K.

my quality of like in Austin on $90,000 exceeded by quality of like in the U.K. on £40,000 and I would have had hardly any chance to get to a similar wage in the U.K.

Yep - likewise when I moved to a Muslim country, the responses from some friends were insane and not my experience at all. But of course they never believed me that I actually loved my time out there and preferred it in many ways! So I have some experience of sifting through the hyperbole, even if everyone's opinions are valid. Thanks :)