Should I move to America or stay in U.K.?

[LittleGreyGoose]

Hello,

I am applying for a fiancé visa to move to America (once granted I would emigrate, marry my American fiancé, and then adjust my status to permanent resident). I would love some perspective, not only from those who have moved / already live there but also anyone who might be planning (or dreaming!) of emigrating. We could try to settle in the U.K. instead so I want to know I'm doing the right thing, purely from a geographical / political / future-proofing move. I'm trying to look at this dispassionately but I’m sleep-deprived and dealing with post-birth hormones so I can’t think straight!

For context we have a baby and a toddler and would be moving to a liberal city but in a republican state. He has a house there already in a good neighbourhood. Currently I’m renting.
For more context he’s great but I’d be foolish to not consider what happens if it doesn’t work out (I do know that my resident status would be permanent after a few years and not reliant upon being married, for example). For even more context, I have lived in other countries before and am an adventurer at heart so the move itself isn’t an issue! Just now I have children so don’t want to mess it up.

Some initial thoughts:

• I have plenty to like about the U.K. but it feels like we are on a steady and slow decline. This makes me feel emigrating is the best option but I also foresee America having its own wobble. Am I naive to think that America is still a land of opportunity or should we go with ‘better the devil you know Britain’?

• while I have no faith in British politics any more, and still rage about the foot shooting mess that is Brexit, it's not exactly rosy in the US either and if Trump gets back into the White House then will I have just jumped from the frying pan into the fire?

• Or, am I just being melodramatic?! I do worry about forthcoming political and social unrest in America and joke to my fiancé about getting 'militia ready' and how I’m lucky I still have my collection of 90s grunge army jackets, but there are credible murmurings of concern for the stability of the country. At least in the U.K., even if everything is a bit shit, I don't worry about this.

• on a more personal level I’ll be leaving a job that I love and will have to wait until I’m given a green card before being able to work in America (which could take up to a year after we get married). This is fine, in theory - it'll be good to spend that time adjusting with the children, and I may even retrain into something more AI proof (currently in comms / writing). I guess I'm just nervous because I'm choosing to leave employment and a career (albeit temporarily) and be reliant upon someone else.

• and finally, I guess there are all the potential administrative and logistical complications of joining forces with a damn yankee (otherwise known as marrying my fiancé). The kids already have American and British citizenship / passports, U.K. bank accounts, and NHS numbers as well as American social security numbers - I want them to have options to settle in either country as they grow, but am I missing anything?

Thanks for reading of you made it this far! Any insight? Anything I haven’t thought of? Am I focusing on the wrong things? Please be kind. I’m at the tale end of PND and catastrophising like crazy!

Nope. Nope. Nope.

I agree. DS2's godson was Dx'd with Autism as a toddler (Fragile X) and when he reached school age the IEP for him was absolutely wonderful. Extra help, special equipment, outside resources brought in, special classes, and even classes for the parents, all paid for by the district. He is now 10 and way ahead in academics and social interaction from where anyone ever thought he'd be at this age.

And this isn't even counting the govt programs and help that were made available to them even before he reached school age. Either govt funded or paid for by health insurance or Medicaid.

I suppose it can vary from state to state, but the ADA demands certain basic standards.

@LittleGreyGoose

i wouldn't live in the US, for all the reasons already lifted.

But MORE importantly for me. I'd never move anywhere that the kids Dad could make the kids stay if I wanted to bring them home. It doesn't matter what they say today, as that's not binding.

just no way.

@@LittleGreyGoose

obviously, don't answer if you don't want to, but why is he living there & you here with a toddler & a baby? It seems like an odd situation to find yourself in & the reasons for that may sway opinion.

@ThursdayFreedom but that's the thing - if we move then I will be making it my home too. I just don't think I would want to 'take them home' (back to the U.K.) as they'd grow up without a really great dad who adores them - and is a proper hands on dad too. I mentioned previously that my own dad worked abroad all my life and I've not touched the surface of how that impacted me emotionally in my formative years. So yes, although I'm aware that things might go south, part of the move to America (and my research into the pros and cons) is for me too, to make a life over there that I'm happy with, as well as for the family.

Of course it could go terribly and I might hate it and want to return for other reasons, but right now I'm trying to look at where we could offer a better life for the children (and me) and I think many of these posts have reassured me that it'll be US based. At least for the first few years.

We are both a little older than you may think, been around the block, and we are under no illusions about the work that we will need to do. This isn't a Disney-style whirlwind decision. You asked about the situation we find ourselves in - suffice to say it has been a journey that began with some unexpected news, which we adapted to whilst working towards a long term goal (be that USA or U.K. based).

The one thing I will insist upon is some sort of acknowledgment for the time I'm unable to work / support into savings so that there is a financial equality and I'm not left high and dry should the worst happen.

So the house we have is in a great neighbourhood - family orientated with leisure amenities and trails and so on close by. It might be a bit too suburban for me, perhaps, I'm used to having 'life' on my doorstep, but we have enough time to settle and see how we feel / fit in before making any long lasting decision. Also some great schools which we're researching.

But some good insight, thanks - if we do move neighbourhoods (or states) then this is good to know. My fiancé hasn't lived in the states for decades so some of this is new to him too.

Thanks for this and the other posters who have explained the good SEN support. Ours are too young yet to know but this is really positive, and had been a topic I hadn't considered or been aware of.

Yeah I'm still trying to get my head round the HOA - it feels like they have a lot of say over things that I don't think I'm used to! Not that it's a bad thing, just weirdly dictatorial / communal for a country that prides itself on being individualistic, if that makes sense. Interesting to know they how they vary though.

I agree with the facilities in middle class American schools being very good but the unspoken other side is that if you're not in a posh middle class area, you won't get the Olympic size swimming pools etc in your school. You can have a fab lifestyle including great schools but if you're not well off, it's a different story.

It's pretty accepted in the UK that schools in deprived areas get more cash (through pupil premium) but it's equally accepted in the US that wealthy areas get better funded schools.

Ah some more good insight, thanks :)

From memory I loved a few parts of Austin for its quirky cafes and restaurants but there were other parts that were just rolling strip malls and chain fast food joints so I will definitely miss the ease of pub and cafe culture. I love people watching and so I shall try to find a nook that allows me to do that.

And yes, I'm starting to realise that I'll be giving up a great little community of parent / baby clubs here, and that because of the poor maternity allowance in America it won't be as easy as I'd initially thought to find other parents. But there are a few Facebook groups I've found which will be a good starting point.

And yes, friendly neighbours! I think we have some already who have introduced themselves to fiancé. It feels like it's going to be so different to what I'm used to in the U.K., might take some getting used to.

Thanks as ever for your posts, I feel more and more certain about the move. The big stuff I was worried about will probably not change, but these insights into life are what I'll be experiencing every day so it's great to hear from everyone.

This makes me happy - I was given some great opportunities as a kid to fulfil sporty / stage dreams and so this is really important that it's taken so seriously out there.

Thank you. I think this thread has cemented what I had wanted to do but was probably talking myself out of... I know it's a risk and a huge leap of faith, moving to a country to marry and start a life without having done it here, but I think that's what I need to do and what will give us all the best life. And yes, I think I'll thrive there too - I have such a positive reaction to America every time I visit. Something about it - the wide open spaces, the energy, the openness of the people, just speaks to my soul! (I think I was a pioneer cowboy in a former life)

Since you're moving to the Austin area I thought you might be interested:

https://austinmoms.com/2019/03/13/ultimate-guide-to-mommy-me-activities-in-austin/

Schools in built-up areas are usually already built, and areas that are undergoing expansion are generally middle class and are equipped with schools once a school district/ tax body is established.

Schools are funded by local taxes. Back in the day it was a point of pride that a school came with all the bells and whistles. That is still the case to a large extent today, since a superbly-equipped school will ultimately attract people to an area who value a fantastic school, and a school with a great reputation will result in increased property values in the School District.

What counts as middle class in the US is not necessarily 'posh' either.

there is a problem in some deprived areas where on paper they get good funding, but because their needs are so high, it doesn't go as far. I've seen per capita statistics. Baltimore City schools spend only slightly less than my district (Montgomery County) but you wouldn't know it to look at the facilities. You'd think they spend half as much. Disparities are worse the more reliant they are on local funding. Texas doesn't have an income tax, but they have quite high property taxes, and obviously wealthy areas are able to spend more.

I do agree that SEN support and legal protections seem stronger here, though you can still have to fight to get what your child is entitled to. Mainstreaming is better supported, and it's much easier to access diagnostic services and therapies (you may have to pay for extra private speech or OT but that's true in the UK too. We did get coverage from our insurance since DC is autistic, but we had to pay $30 a session, which does add up. that was on top of what they got from school--it just wasn't possible to address both pragmatics and disfluencies adequately. That DC got a lot of speech therapy so it's not an insult to any part of the system.)

there's currently a big push to reform literacy teaching in primary schools and as well as instituting systemic phonics teaching, to move to more content based as opposed to skills based teaching. I'm very happy with this as ELA was really a weak spot when my older children were in elementary school.

Disparities are worse the more reliant they are on local funding

Yes this is exactly the point I was making.

I went to an amazing American school but the one a few miles away in the poorer school district was shit.

It's obvious from all your responses that you want to go and will go. Count yourself lucky that you appear to be a white, middle-class person with a "cowboy spirit" who won't have to suffer the fear and injustices of somebody different. That's why I couldn't live there now, even in a Liberal bubble. I have friends and family both black and white living there and I've heard too many sad stories from both sides about disparities, latent or more overt prejudice, even just on a neighbourhood level. I worked with a non-profit when I was there who was fighting for criminal justice reform and whilst I will say I've met many Americans like them whose courage and commitment to change I admire greatly (and is hugely inspiring on a level I haven't met in UK because we don't have those issues), it's sad that fighting for basic rights and equality even has to exist to that level in a "democratic" country. And then I hear about their delusion and fatigue for every step back the country seems to take in social progression. The guns is another thing I just can't be on board with. That said, culturally in terms of arts and music it has some magical aspects to it. America really is the land of contradictions.

@RoseLee04 your post is weirdly hostile and presupposes quite a bit there. You have no idea about me, my history, my beliefs, or my experiences. Thank you for your contribution.

@LittleGreyGoose Your comment is oddly defensive when I simply gave my opinion on a post that you publicly shared, and based on what I am perceiving from what you have stated about your situation and motivations. I threw in my own experience with the US for good measure (although I recognise it's not applicable to all people in all cases). I made no presupposition about your wider beliefs or experiences, only your circumstances and what you've expressed about what attracts you to US as I sense in this particular context. Of course I could be wrong, this is just an online, anonymous forum. I do agree that for as much as there are negatives about the US there are many positives, which is why I highlighted some of the inspirational people I met there as well as the diversity of arts and culture, things that personally grabbed me. All the best with your decision!

@RoseLee04 Sorry - perhaps I was a bit over sensitive. I mentioned in my OP I was a little sleep deprived 😬 The quote marks felt like a dig, and that I was being a bit naive about the realities. In fact, I agree with much of your post, and moving to America is not something I'm taking lightly. I'm very political and know that I am lucky to be making this decision from a position of relative privilege. I also know I can't comprehend some of the differences I'll experience; some good and some bad. Gun culture and the seemingly every day casual violence is at the forefront of my concerns and I doubt I will be content living in a bubble and ignoring it.

Anyway, thanks for your perspective. Ultimately the feeling I get when in America (yes, my "cowboy spirit") makes me feel more positive than when in the U.K., so I think I have to go. If that changes and / or the kids become affected then we will return.

If you’re after new opportunities, a fresh lifestyle, and don’t mind a few challenges like adjusting to a different healthcare system or being far from family, moving to America from UK could be an amazing adventure.
But if you value the familiar comforts of the UK — like the NHS, being close to friends and family, and the lifestyle you're used to — it might be worth staying.

I think anyone considering moving to the US right now has lost it. For starters, you can be kicked out again at the drop of a hat if you look a little bit foreign, have tattoos, or say something mildly unflattering about The Orange. Also if you're gay, not Christian or critical of what Israel is doing in Gaza. Just don't.