Should I move to America or stay in U.K.?

[LittleGreyGoose]

Hello,

I am applying for a fiancé visa to move to America (once granted I would emigrate, marry my American fiancé, and then adjust my status to permanent resident). I would love some perspective, not only from those who have moved / already live there but also anyone who might be planning (or dreaming!) of emigrating. We could try to settle in the U.K. instead so I want to know I'm doing the right thing, purely from a geographical / political / future-proofing move. I'm trying to look at this dispassionately but I’m sleep-deprived and dealing with post-birth hormones so I can’t think straight!

For context we have a baby and a toddler and would be moving to a liberal city but in a republican state. He has a house there already in a good neighbourhood. Currently I’m renting.
For more context he’s great but I’d be foolish to not consider what happens if it doesn’t work out (I do know that my resident status would be permanent after a few years and not reliant upon being married, for example). For even more context, I have lived in other countries before and am an adventurer at heart so the move itself isn’t an issue! Just now I have children so don’t want to mess it up.

Some initial thoughts:

• I have plenty to like about the U.K. but it feels like we are on a steady and slow decline. This makes me feel emigrating is the best option but I also foresee America having its own wobble. Am I naive to think that America is still a land of opportunity or should we go with ‘better the devil you know Britain’?

• while I have no faith in British politics any more, and still rage about the foot shooting mess that is Brexit, it's not exactly rosy in the US either and if Trump gets back into the White House then will I have just jumped from the frying pan into the fire?

• Or, am I just being melodramatic?! I do worry about forthcoming political and social unrest in America and joke to my fiancé about getting 'militia ready' and how I’m lucky I still have my collection of 90s grunge army jackets, but there are credible murmurings of concern for the stability of the country. At least in the U.K., even if everything is a bit shit, I don't worry about this.

• on a more personal level I’ll be leaving a job that I love and will have to wait until I’m given a green card before being able to work in America (which could take up to a year after we get married). This is fine, in theory - it'll be good to spend that time adjusting with the children, and I may even retrain into something more AI proof (currently in comms / writing). I guess I'm just nervous because I'm choosing to leave employment and a career (albeit temporarily) and be reliant upon someone else.

• and finally, I guess there are all the potential administrative and logistical complications of joining forces with a damn yankee (otherwise known as marrying my fiancé). The kids already have American and British citizenship / passports, U.K. bank accounts, and NHS numbers as well as American social security numbers - I want them to have options to settle in either country as they grow, but am I missing anything?

Thanks for reading of you made it this far! Any insight? Anything I haven’t thought of? Am I focusing on the wrong things? Please be kind. I’m at the tale end of PND and catastrophising like crazy!

@FlounderingFruitcake I miss the olden days where I could just go to a pub for a few weeks, get to know the regulars, then boom, ready made circle of sociable friends! It's so much more complicated as you get older.

I do know there's a good dance scene in Austin so I'll start there.

Thanks for the views :)

My DIL has done the exact opposite moved from Austin to live with us in Hertfordshire, as DS would not move to the US (he has an identical twin brother and would not leave him) I think you have to consider who out of the two of you has the close family and friends whom it would be harder to leave.
Direct flights to Texas are expensive, especially for a family.
You need to think up all the pro's and cons very carefully.

And exactly - nothing needs to be forever and I can always come home (admittedly this thread has made me realise I should consider potential custody issues in advance with fiancé if things don't work out, but I would hope it wouldn't be acrimonious to that extent)

@LittleGreyGoose

Definitely talk about it, but the thing to remember is that even if you and DP sit down and hammer out an informal 'what if' agreement together regarding the children in a split, it will have no legal 'force'. And many states bar child custody/visitation and in some cases child support from inclusion in a pre-nup. Child issues have to hammered out as part of the divorce.

The most talking about it will do is give you an idea of where each of your 'heads' are at as of today. But when it comes down to 'brass tacks' his or your feelings may change.

I guess what I'm saying is don't move to the US thinking that child related issues are 'settled' in any way just because you agree today. Whether it's returning to the UK or moving from Austin to Houston it will all be up for negotiation.

@LittleGreyGoose

They don't have a pub culture. No one walks anywhere either.

@LittleGreyGoose School shootings are a big worry! Also being mostly in charge of the syllabus is a big plus, as well as the way and the environment that they can learn. In our area, there are a lot of homeschooled children so there are regular in-person classes, field trips, sports events, etc. It's not just a child by themself at home all day haha. There's still socialisation. Specifically in the states, I want to be able to teach them science and religion the way we want them to understand it, not the way the government or particular teachers want to teach it.

Have you actually been to USA?

If not, I suggest you take a taster trip to where his house is.

@anonuser63732 this is actually something I've vaguely considered too, hence my curiosity. I think it's more of a thing over there, with proper communities as you say - less of a weird idea than it is in the U.K. anyway! Thanks for your response

@2bazookas yeah, many times over the past few decades and specifically to Austin last year. I was with him when he bought the house (helped choose it - it really is gorgeous and bigger than what we would get here)

I have always loved the optimism and friendliness of the America I experienced (while acknowledging that there are plenty of less positive experiences to be had). And pp have reminded me that each state is very different so if Austin doesn't suit us then we can find somewhere that does!

@AcrossthePond55 thanks. Wise words. Interesting about the pre-nup excluding custody too, i had thought about discussing a pre-nup with fiancé for this reason. I'll look into it more based on the state we'll be living in.

Thanks :)

One thing I guess I don't know enough about (and may be one for the Living Overseas forum) but are mum / baby groups the same in America as in the U.K.? It has been a great way for me to get out and have some structure to my day, as well as meeting other mums - not sure if they do things differently over there.

Not really. It's unusual for American mothers to take more than a few months of maternity leave so babies are either with nannies or in daycare, making meet-ups difficult. It's not impossible all the same - if you're in a middle class area you'll find other mothers (many wfh) when you take your child to a private preschool at age 3 or 4.

If you live in a young family style neighbourhood you'll see and meet families at weekends, at block parties, etc. You will also see families with young children at the local park facilities - playgrounds, pools, Gymboree, YMCA, and what not. It won't be the same as the UK but there are opportunities all the same. But expect a lot of nannies, and many of them will be Spanish speaking.

The quality of education is something I'm obviously keen to explore (it being some way off for our two we have a little bit of time to get it right and move if needs be). I have heard it can vary wildly. But as a sporty person with hopes for the kids to follow (in a non-pushy-stage-mom kinda way) am I right in thinking that the sports opportunities in American schools (especially high school) are much better? As in there are facilities that we could only dream of here affiliated with particular schools and colleges? I should look more into this and not take some of my knowledge from 90s high school films

You will be blown away by the facilities for sports, fine arts, performing arts, you-neame-it in middle class American state high schools.

• name

You will be blown away by the facilities for sports, fine arts, performing arts, you-name-it in middle class American state high schools.

I agree. The public high school my kids attended lacked for nothing. They even had a rowing team.

@LittleGreyGoose I haven't read this ENTIRE thread but I think I have taken the measure of your situation and what kind of outlook you have on life etc...

Also I am an American from California who moved to the UK 16 years ago and have raised a child here in the UK.

Just go. I think you are actually going to thrive in the US. Austin is a kick ass city and life is pretty dang easy there. The summers are brutal and allergy season sucks, but the sweet sweet air-con helps.

The school shooting stuff is scary and that would be one of the main things I would ever hesitate about. And yeah the politics is nuts and divisive, but I still have faith that the majority of Americans are somewhat sane and things won't fall apart. Not like the UK has it all figured out. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I have no plans to go back myself, but I think I have a realistic view of what both countries have to offer.

Also as others have mentioned, you don't need to wait for a green card to get the work permit.

@mathanxiety @MissConductUS I agree about the facilities, it’s hard to comprehend the vast range of facilities my public high school had.

Full size athletics track, immaculate football stadium, Olympic sized pool, golf course, tennis courts, weight lifting rooms, three fully equipped dance studios, baseball field, basketball courts, a theatre with gallery seating, dedicated labs for subjects like marine biology and forensic science, multiple band rooms, mechanics garage for its solar car team etc. I think a lot of private schools in the UK would struggle to offer nearly the same sort of facilities.

My year at school produced two NFL players, one PGA golfer, a gold medal Paralympic athlete and a country singer signed to a major label.

It can take a while to get an appointment with my GP, but never 4 months. Plus, if I was to get ill and the GP has no appt., I can go to an urgent care center and still see a doctor. I can also decide myself if I need a specialist and don't need my GP's referral to go see them.

In terms of socializing…

Everyone walks where I am in small town America. As an introvert I kind of struggle with how often people ask me to go for walks with them especially as I have a dog. It is different all over though.

Someone said above that Americans tend to not take their kids out as much. I’m in northern New England and we take our kids out in weather from -10C to +35C without batting an eyelid. In winter a lot of kids ski from pretty much the moment they can walk, and they are at the beach or lake all summer. I’m sure this isn’t everyone’s experience which just goes to show that you really can’t generalise.

We have some pubs, breweries, wine bars, mead works, all sorts. It’s not British pub culture but we’re not sitting at home avoiding each other.

It’s normal on a Saturday to go and watch a Little League game or a high school hockey game and catch up with other people there.

Parent and baby groups aren’t quite like In the UK. When I arrived I joined a couple of ‘mom’ groups, and also there were groups set up where kids who would be in the same year at school could get together. I also met a lot of people through nursery and kindergarten.

Our neighbourhoods are pretty friendly and have regular get togethers. I often chat to my neighbours, and we all help each other out a lot. One time I was rushed into hospital, and DH was abroad. My neighbor took my two small children overnight without question.

I found it very easy here to make friends and build a support network.

This x one thousand.

And guns.

Like a fire alarm but where you hide under desks and automated (if school is newer) windows and doors slam shut. Children are told what to do if they’re not in their classroom when it happens. Advice is usually do whatever you can to survive - run or hide or put feet up on toilet seat to hide. This is infant age children up to high school. As horrifying as it sounds. My child has been through two ‘real’ drills as well which thankfully were false alarms.

All kids I know have been through similar in neighborhood schools / had days of school cancelled due to potential threats. I have had to wait outside school while my child is locked inside with blinds down.

I think my kids have had 1 drill?

A friend's kids got their school locked down because they heard gunshots. It turned out to be hunters who got too close to the school. That does happen in rural areas. (Not where I live though)

I've found that it's easier to make friends when there's a good number of transplants, and Austin would qualify. Places where everyone still knows their friends from high school can be tough to break into.

The other thing on neighbourhood layout: newer neighbourhoods in many areas are HOAs, and municipalities have passed off the job of building amenities like playgrounds and pools onto the HOAs. It's a bit shit. In my areas the townhouses and condos have HOAs (It can be a necessity for shared public areas, but amenities vary) but the public park system is excellent. Some places not so much and it's not always because they're poor; it's because of things like loads of people have private pools, so a public one would be for the "poor people". (In the South during desegregation, cities closed pools rather than open them to everyone.)

Re the schools - compared with uk state schools , especially primary, my USA grandchildren have masses more opportunities for additional activities , sport, creative, groups etc.
As an infant teacher I was shocked though at the formality of the USA early years system!

I moved my oldest directly from a UK primary school to a US elementary school and didn’t notice it being any more formal in the US. In fact the US was much more relaxed and play-based if anything.

I’m also shocked when I read stories in the UK about students not being allowed to
leave the classroom to go to the toilet or getting put in detention because of minor uniform infractions. Again not my kids’ experience here in the US.

Another difference I’ve really noticed is how much easier it’s been to get SEN support and a diagnosis and treatment here. My youngest has ADHD and some other processing issues and was diagnosed and receiving support from the school within a couple of months of us mentioning it, which completely turned around his experience of education.

I don’t think that is necessarily the case in all districts and states so definitely something to research before choosing an area to live.

I'm still here and reading these messages - my fiancé just flew in today though so I'll be a bit distracted! But again, huge thanks for all these perspectives, they're invaluable. I'll reply to a few properly later :)

Another difference I’ve really noticed is how much easier it’s been to get SEN support and a diagnosis and treatment here.

This was my experience too. When my first child was diagnosed as language delayed, our pediatrician notified the school district and they sent a speech therapist to our house twice a week to work with him until he started school in person. Additional therapy and testing was then done by the school while he was there. It didn't cost us anything and it wasn't something we had to fight for either.

If you want public goods (playgrounds, parks, public pools, libraries, etc) you should look for a house in an older neighbourhood, built before private pools became a thing.

Drive around, investigate neighbourhoods thoroughly, and check the quality of the schools. School catchment (district) boundaries are rigorously enforced in a lot of places - make sure your home is within district boundaries if there's a certain school you really like. For private schools (Jewish, RC, Lutheran, and Montessori are the main private schools where I live but different places can have a different mix) catchments normally don't apply, though congregation members usually get prioritised for religious school admission.