Should I move to America or stay in U.K.?

[LittleGreyGoose]

Hello,

I am applying for a fiancé visa to move to America (once granted I would emigrate, marry my American fiancé, and then adjust my status to permanent resident). I would love some perspective, not only from those who have moved / already live there but also anyone who might be planning (or dreaming!) of emigrating. We could try to settle in the U.K. instead so I want to know I'm doing the right thing, purely from a geographical / political / future-proofing move. I'm trying to look at this dispassionately but I’m sleep-deprived and dealing with post-birth hormones so I can’t think straight!

For context we have a baby and a toddler and would be moving to a liberal city but in a republican state. He has a house there already in a good neighbourhood. Currently I’m renting.
For more context he’s great but I’d be foolish to not consider what happens if it doesn’t work out (I do know that my resident status would be permanent after a few years and not reliant upon being married, for example). For even more context, I have lived in other countries before and am an adventurer at heart so the move itself isn’t an issue! Just now I have children so don’t want to mess it up.

Some initial thoughts:

• I have plenty to like about the U.K. but it feels like we are on a steady and slow decline. This makes me feel emigrating is the best option but I also foresee America having its own wobble. Am I naive to think that America is still a land of opportunity or should we go with ‘better the devil you know Britain’?

• while I have no faith in British politics any more, and still rage about the foot shooting mess that is Brexit, it's not exactly rosy in the US either and if Trump gets back into the White House then will I have just jumped from the frying pan into the fire?

• Or, am I just being melodramatic?! I do worry about forthcoming political and social unrest in America and joke to my fiancé about getting 'militia ready' and how I’m lucky I still have my collection of 90s grunge army jackets, but there are credible murmurings of concern for the stability of the country. At least in the U.K., even if everything is a bit shit, I don't worry about this.

• on a more personal level I’ll be leaving a job that I love and will have to wait until I’m given a green card before being able to work in America (which could take up to a year after we get married). This is fine, in theory - it'll be good to spend that time adjusting with the children, and I may even retrain into something more AI proof (currently in comms / writing). I guess I'm just nervous because I'm choosing to leave employment and a career (albeit temporarily) and be reliant upon someone else.

• and finally, I guess there are all the potential administrative and logistical complications of joining forces with a damn yankee (otherwise known as marrying my fiancé). The kids already have American and British citizenship / passports, U.K. bank accounts, and NHS numbers as well as American social security numbers - I want them to have options to settle in either country as they grow, but am I missing anything?

Thanks for reading of you made it this far! Any insight? Anything I haven’t thought of? Am I focusing on the wrong things? Please be kind. I’m at the tale end of PND and catastrophising like crazy!

I've lived in both but chose to raise my family in the UK for all the reasons listed above - I don't want to be part of gun culture / inequality etc.

If you have a BIG salary ($150K minimum and double would be good) and good healthcare, then life in the USA can be sweet and easy. But if things go wrong, the risks are much bigger. You can be sacked from your job for no reason, stopped by the police for no reason, shot by a stranger for no reason etc. Lack of healthcare / major poverty / racism / political divisions are all worse than in the UK. So moving to the USA is a very high risk option.

If you don't move, what will your fiance do? can he stay in the UK or will it end your relationship?

Stay. So hard to find a job out there on the level you have now. Can you imagine being out of work, no friends, bored out your skull?

I have lots of friends in America and the vast majority wish they could leave.

I would never, ever move there in a million years.

Medical bills, school shootings and the inability to take my kids back to UK if the relationship goes south would be enough to stop me moving there

It depends hugely on exactly where you will be and your and his socio-economic prospects.. FWIW I live also in a very liberal city in an increasingly republican state and I'm very happy there. Back in the UK for the summer and I am a bit shocked by the cost of everything in London - seems much worse than the US (though obviously this is nothing to do with the dreaded healthcare issue.) Yes, I loathe the gun culture but bad stuff happens everywhere. I don't think I would ever move to Florida, though.

I thought about this when I was a bit younger but decided I wanted to stay in the UK for the healthcare, schooling, lack of guns and general love of the English.
Also kids in the US are now taught about gender identities rather than sex - I don't believe in it and think it's really looking bad for women, girls and LGB people.
I work closely with our US team and redundacies are brutal - chucked out of the office on the day of the announcement!

Do you have family in the UK? Does he have family in the US? What is your support network look like in both places? I would be concerned that he could keep the kids there is you were to split up, also what are the divorce laws like on the state you'll be living? A big thing for me about the US is guns and how they seem to be everywhere. You would also need to have good health insurance, the NHS isn't great but you can keep your kids healthy at no up front cost to you on the UK. Is his income enough for good health insurance?

I've lived in the USA (very liberal city, atypical of USA) and I wouldn't go back now. If you are rich (as in $300k a year minimum and employer pays for excellent health insurance etc) then life can be sweet, though housing costs are crazy in the big liberal cities. But most people don't earn those sorts of amounts, they have huge copays on medical, they live hand to mouth basically, life is tough. At in the U.K. certain things are entitlements.

Interesting my disabled friend in the USA has far better benefits than the U.K. so as with all things, it's not a simple equation

Austin? I could happily live in Austin.

*if I was rich

I've worked for an American company for years. I am thankful I have a European contract because their culture of assuming they own all your time, is not healthy. Plus...
Lack of maternity leave
Poor workers rights
Patchy abortion rights
Issues with visa (permanent visa is not immediate after marriage)
Issue of child residency. Make sure your children are British citizens and that you can leave freely if necessary.
Gun lobby - school/college shootings
Racism

I'd struggle to cope in a country where the divisions are even greater than the UK. 🙁

Interesting topic. A few years ago I would have said move to the US as like you I have an adventurous spirit and have also lived in the US for one year - also in a Liberal area that was part of a Republican state. But that was pre-Trump and MAGA rising, abortion ban etc and my American friends there are saying that they would seriously consider moving to a blue state for peace of mind. I now also have a family falling into the category of mixed race and on principle would not expect my husband or child to face undue discrimination or police brutality. We currently live offshore, very close to the US, and for a long time I thought my husband was being unreasonable and fearful in being anti-US, especially as due to his profession he could still progress at a fast rate with the right company and resources in the US. However for every additional story that comes out about another police attack, a man being strangled on the subway by an ex-marine officer for no good reason and the non-stop culture wars that go on there, I have completely turned off the idea. It's a place with constant brewing anger and aggression. One of the reasons I enjoy MumsNet is because it allows me to still feel connected to that good old British sense of tolerance, down to earthness and reasonableness, even when things are bad there.

I spent most of my adult life in the US, if my grown up kids moved back there, I'd go too. All dual nationals so no problem. We live in a mini Bible Belt in democratic state and never had any problems really. Kids had a good education in safe schools and we had good medical insurance through Dh's work. So it all depends of the area you'll live and what your life/work would be like in that area.

Some really interesting responses! I will be back, just dealing with kids bed time, didn't want you all to think I'd disappeared.

One of the things that put us off was their short holiday entitlement. Time off is important to us and they seemed to have such a tiny holiday allowance.

This. I’d spend all day worrying if my children would come back from school alive. The gun situation there is enough to put me off every wanting to visit let alone there again.

I'm not sure wide roads would be a good enough reason for me along with a lot of those listed...

Absolutely no chance I’d move to America with children, there have been more than 200 mads shootings already this year.

dry cleaning delivered to the porch

I get this here

I will move today if I could but I am curious. Why do you want a liberal city but with republican local government? Please tell me.

A country where women's rights are going backwards, they have to worry about guns in school and if your black you can't even safely walk down the street without fear that some idiot with a gun will decide to shoot you for the colour of your skin.
The UK isn't perfect but I feel saver here then I ever would there.

Brit living in the US for 13 years. As I would expect lots about guns, race and crime already (some a little hyperbolic) so I won't go around those again. I would suggest considering how you would create you own life here and how long that would take. I moved here and didn't find a job straight away even though I had a green card. Ended up having to go backwards in my career and then work my way back up. It took 18 months to find a decent job and has now taken 5 years to get back to where I was before in terms of position. You need to consider how long it would take to find work which is largely dependent on where you live. States tend to be focused largely on one or two areas of work and if you don't have that background it can be tough to get your foot in the door. Also, think about whether any professional qualifications transfer over. I'd look at jobs closest to yours in the area you want to move to and check availability, quals needed and salary and work out from there. Think friendships. If you don't work for 12 months how will you make friends of partner is out all day. There is def a novelty factor to the British accent but it wears off pretty quickly! In essence think about how you would recreate a life for yourself in a few years which took all your life to create at home. Don't not do it but make sure you go in eyes wide open. It will test your relationship unless you are very lucky. My own experience and that of about 10 couples in my world who have done similar and all had settling in issues...

If you mean Austin, it's a bit of bubble of blue in a red state and I love that city. Texas itself is vast and has many beautiful places to visit.

HOWEVER, guns. Loads and loads of them.

No abortion rights. So, say you or your daughter need emergency abortion care, you will need to drive for HOURS to get it. Across dessert highways. It'd be a similar distance for you to go to Rome.