Should I move to America or stay in U.K.?

[LittleGreyGoose]

Hello,

I am applying for a fiancé visa to move to America (once granted I would emigrate, marry my American fiancé, and then adjust my status to permanent resident). I would love some perspective, not only from those who have moved / already live there but also anyone who might be planning (or dreaming!) of emigrating. We could try to settle in the U.K. instead so I want to know I'm doing the right thing, purely from a geographical / political / future-proofing move. I'm trying to look at this dispassionately but I’m sleep-deprived and dealing with post-birth hormones so I can’t think straight!

For context we have a baby and a toddler and would be moving to a liberal city but in a republican state. He has a house there already in a good neighbourhood. Currently I’m renting.
For more context he’s great but I’d be foolish to not consider what happens if it doesn’t work out (I do know that my resident status would be permanent after a few years and not reliant upon being married, for example). For even more context, I have lived in other countries before and am an adventurer at heart so the move itself isn’t an issue! Just now I have children so don’t want to mess it up.

Some initial thoughts:

• I have plenty to like about the U.K. but it feels like we are on a steady and slow decline. This makes me feel emigrating is the best option but I also foresee America having its own wobble. Am I naive to think that America is still a land of opportunity or should we go with ‘better the devil you know Britain’?

• while I have no faith in British politics any more, and still rage about the foot shooting mess that is Brexit, it's not exactly rosy in the US either and if Trump gets back into the White House then will I have just jumped from the frying pan into the fire?

• Or, am I just being melodramatic?! I do worry about forthcoming political and social unrest in America and joke to my fiancé about getting 'militia ready' and how I’m lucky I still have my collection of 90s grunge army jackets, but there are credible murmurings of concern for the stability of the country. At least in the U.K., even if everything is a bit shit, I don't worry about this.

• on a more personal level I’ll be leaving a job that I love and will have to wait until I’m given a green card before being able to work in America (which could take up to a year after we get married). This is fine, in theory - it'll be good to spend that time adjusting with the children, and I may even retrain into something more AI proof (currently in comms / writing). I guess I'm just nervous because I'm choosing to leave employment and a career (albeit temporarily) and be reliant upon someone else.

• and finally, I guess there are all the potential administrative and logistical complications of joining forces with a damn yankee (otherwise known as marrying my fiancé). The kids already have American and British citizenship / passports, U.K. bank accounts, and NHS numbers as well as American social security numbers - I want them to have options to settle in either country as they grow, but am I missing anything?

Thanks for reading of you made it this far! Any insight? Anything I haven’t thought of? Am I focusing on the wrong things? Please be kind. I’m at the tale end of PND and catastrophising like crazy!

He's a good egg with regards to that and is taking this all very seriously. He absolutely knows I am not going to be a martyred housewife and am chomping at the bit to start work, but is happy to take on responsibilities in the meantime. Having said that, your post has given me something else to think about which is 'what is a fair income' for a (temporary) SAHM. And pension. And all that stuff.

On the list it goes!

Really interesting about Texas stripping autonomy. I will read up on this, had no idea and it might impact if we decide to settle in Austin long term.

I'm very away too of the Texan abortion roll back, it's heartbreaking. It won't impact me directly but of course it does impact all women, not even just Texas, or indeed America, really.

Good other points. And yes, the heat, and the fact that it will get worse :(

Thank you! Yes, I will do everything I can to stay on the same continent as fiancé if things go south, and I believe he would too. We are both happy to move where the opportunity takes us, not fixated on one state or country until we and / or the children feel settled so I think this flexibility will help us. My dad worked abroad all my life and it has made a lasting impression on me which I don't want the children to experience.

I won't be getting pregnant again (well, I mean, it could happen by miracle but very unlikely) so it won't be a direct impact on me but as mentioned this is something I need to consider. If things worsen, at what point would I say enough, and leave for the sake of my (currently very young) children.

Well, I think NEVER moving countries to be financially dependent upon a man is a bit rigid in its thinking. And the unemployment will (hopefully) be temporary. I also have some small savings which are separate to any joint account we will have.

living in the States was the one which gave me the most culture shock. Everything looked so familiar but there were nuances which made it very different and hard to understand.

I lived in three cities- one was amazing but two were hard work.

Thank you - I will double check with our immigration lawyer. I think a few things in this thread have helped clarify / made me remember things to ask. And yes, that three year timeframe sounds right because after that I won't be 'beholden' to my partner to stay if we were to split up.

Yes to the heat! I do love it, but I've discovered since having kids that it's less fun when you're carrying bags and toddlers and babies and food and... 😆 I have heard the insects in Austin are quite the thing though. Now those I can do without.

All my American friends are miserable, trapped in corporate jobs so they don't lose health insurance and terrified of the violence.

Where do they live? I don't know one person who lives like this in the US. Tell them to move to Massachusetts.

OP, unless you have been sterilized, do not underestimate the effect of the Texas abortion ban on women's health care. It is draconian.

I found the same, but American moving to Uk. I lived in China and other Eu countries before the Uk, where there was some cultural dissonance, but not so much as the UK. I think because we speak the same language, and probably watch a lot of the same media, think that it will be easier - I think the differences sneak up on you, which makes it so much harder to adapt.

I can't afford solo with my current salary. Maybe if he were to sell the Austin home we could do something combined, but the size and location would vastly differ I think. And if he were to move here I just can't see what job he would do that could match in income for a while to support with mortgage.

He meets the threshold of immigration through investments rather than salary, because currently he doesn't have a job (hear me out!) - rather he has a business or two that he's working at with some partners, and is looking at investing in more. However one thing I do want assurance on is if these ventures flatline then he will need to go work for 'the man' again. We have discussed and he agrees but I will add this to my list. His old job took him overseas on contracts so that is also a fall back option.

I genuinely believe his financial capabilities are best suited to America at this stage, and I feel I'm pretty employable (although rubbish in interviews but that's another thread!) so am happy to adapt accordingly. We are currently not worried about immediate financial woes, we have time to make it work for us, if that makes sense.

@Labraradabrador i think that is exactly it!

I too lived in other countries with different languages and maybe accepted the effort needed.

it was very hard as an ‘alien’ in the states- had to go to the tough part of town to register for my utility bills.

im good news I used my Spanish when living in the States more than I did living in Spain.

Thanks for your post - some good points about making friends. I do have to remember that although historically I've been good at making friends wherever I go, that was in part due to being younger and doing it the old fashioned way; going out a lot Making friends as a mum is a whole other ballgame.

So yes, I will need to be quite strategic I think. I am definitely the kind of person people could think of as a weirdo, which I'm normally ok with but for the sake of my children I should try not to be!

My fiancé is definitely less social than me, which worries me slightly as he is happy spending time with me (when I find that just odd!), but he's hoping to put down roots too and doesn't mind my semi regular suggestions to "just go join CrossFit"

Good points to consider re child care. Will add to my list!

Every thread like this on MN is the same: You'll always be told here that the US is a shithole where everyone is left to die.

There's big problems in the US. But there's no guarantees anywhere. Housing everywhere is really shocking, maybe there's some non-English speaking countries where it's all right but UK, USA, Canada, Australia, NZ are all in crisis.

As for green cards, the process is lengthy and a pain (I speak from experience: am a dual UK/US citizen and sponsored DH so we could move to the USA), but if your fiancé meets the income rules and you pass a background check there is no quota. The US income rules are actually laxer than the UK's at the moment.

That said, if it is Texas, gosh I wouldn't want to move there. Austin is nice but the state government is out of its everloving mind. They're going to regret it because doctors are leaving the state and health care is actually quite a big industry in TX and a point of pride (The Texas Medical Center in Houston is unbelievable, and Dallas has a big medical district as well that's very impressive.) We live in the mid-Atlantic outside of DC and are generally happy.

I’ve lived in diff parts of world and spend a lot of time in US - considered a job out there. Here is my take:

a) a republican state would be the worst for me…backwards, restrictive and disagree with educating policy. Hard no.
b) we all agree on the guns things - psychologically that can’t be healthy again hard no.
c) health insurance can be tricky and nerve racking
d) everyone has 2 weeks notice so could be out on your ear looking for Job without any decent notice - very tense environment
e) hols are shocking and in NY/ LA they work through their holidays
f) US on door step vs cheap flights to Europe on door step no question

you will be paid more and you have a bigger house and a bigger car but does this really make up for it? UK is a huge pile of turd but we don’t have arms, aren’t banning aborttiins, sex education in schools or purposefully limiting LGBTQ+ community…
I would say this js a more liberal and less divided society so just on values alone I would stay here and accept it’s all a bit weatherapoons, greggs and crap holiday in Spain.

plus it ain’t crazy to think trump gonna get I. Again.

Best of luck

I would find it hard to give up cheap and short flights to other places on our amazing continent - Spain, France, Denmark, Germany, Poland, Portugal....the food, the wine, the coffee, the architecture, the holidays, the incredible diversity of cultures and art and language.

Having lived in the US for several years, I will say that I prefercities and more populous areas where I’m not the only “forrin” person. I’ve only lived in larger, diverse places so that hasn’t been an issue. I wouldn’t move to a small town in the middle of nowhere, it could be v. isolating, because the distances are so great. Austin should be fine, the University of Texas at Austin has a good reputation and will attract students from all over.

No way would I live in the US:
Drugs crisis
Guns
possibility of being bankrupted if you or your kids get ill, even with insurance
Only 2 weeks’ holiday from work per year!

What specific state are you talking about there?

The only concern I would share is the last one - you're stuck there if your marriage goes tits up. Depending on how acrimonious a separation is, your H could prevent you from taking the children to the UK to visit relatives there and you would need a lawyer to fight him with no guarantee of winning.

You can work before you get your official green card iirc, with alternative documentation from Immigration, but you need to look into this.

I'd be interested to know whose idea is the move to the US?

If it's your DP, what are his reasons?

I live in the US, and I'll be homeschooling. I also have great medical coverage so I don't need to worry about that. I live in an incredible area, very safe and the people are genuinely kind and happy. I'm only a few hours away from Yellowstone so my children get a ton of outside time with amazing things to do. In your situation, it depends on the city. Austin? No - I'd stay in the UK. Have you googled shootings in Austin? We have family and friends in Texas all looking to get out.

On the other hand, a large majority of negative comments about living in the US are from mumsnetters who have never been there and rely solely on what they've heard or read. So take that into consideration when you make your decision!

Also, be prepared to be homesick even if you think you're not! I'm very happy here but it only takes running into another Brit or catching an episode of Escape To The Country and it makes me want to go home again haha.

Well said! I don't live in either the UK or the US, but nothing I know about the UK would lead me to wanting to live there over the US, so all of you with your doom and gloom predictions of life in the US might well want to consider the above post.

I would ignore the hysterical responses about shootings and abortion. I suspect the vast majority of people are unaffected by this but it depends on the rules and social attitudes in the city you live in.

Hundreds of millions of people live there and are perfectly happy. You have to make your own mind up. I emigrated to a different country from the UK and found it very different from comments people made on Mumsnet (most of whom had never been there, only the ones who had lived there were positive about it).

Good luck with your research and whatever you decide to do

I would have to say you are asking on the wrong website because this is predominantly mostly British posters who are bias .

We're close enough but my siblings now live all over the world- my mum has long accepted the wanderlust of her offspring. That being said, since having children I have a different relationship with my mum and it is certainly making me view the move in a different light.

His family are in a different state a plane ride away. He has a similar relationship with them, having travelled since being young, but is close to them and his parents are nice.

But yes, I will miss seeing a relationship develop between my children with my mum, and I should give this more thought.