Should I move to America or stay in U.K.?

[LittleGreyGoose]

Hello,

I am applying for a fiancé visa to move to America (once granted I would emigrate, marry my American fiancé, and then adjust my status to permanent resident). I would love some perspective, not only from those who have moved / already live there but also anyone who might be planning (or dreaming!) of emigrating. We could try to settle in the U.K. instead so I want to know I'm doing the right thing, purely from a geographical / political / future-proofing move. I'm trying to look at this dispassionately but I’m sleep-deprived and dealing with post-birth hormones so I can’t think straight!

For context we have a baby and a toddler and would be moving to a liberal city but in a republican state. He has a house there already in a good neighbourhood. Currently I’m renting.
For more context he’s great but I’d be foolish to not consider what happens if it doesn’t work out (I do know that my resident status would be permanent after a few years and not reliant upon being married, for example). For even more context, I have lived in other countries before and am an adventurer at heart so the move itself isn’t an issue! Just now I have children so don’t want to mess it up.

Some initial thoughts:

• I have plenty to like about the U.K. but it feels like we are on a steady and slow decline. This makes me feel emigrating is the best option but I also foresee America having its own wobble. Am I naive to think that America is still a land of opportunity or should we go with ‘better the devil you know Britain’?

• while I have no faith in British politics any more, and still rage about the foot shooting mess that is Brexit, it's not exactly rosy in the US either and if Trump gets back into the White House then will I have just jumped from the frying pan into the fire?

• Or, am I just being melodramatic?! I do worry about forthcoming political and social unrest in America and joke to my fiancé about getting 'militia ready' and how I’m lucky I still have my collection of 90s grunge army jackets, but there are credible murmurings of concern for the stability of the country. At least in the U.K., even if everything is a bit shit, I don't worry about this.

• on a more personal level I’ll be leaving a job that I love and will have to wait until I’m given a green card before being able to work in America (which could take up to a year after we get married). This is fine, in theory - it'll be good to spend that time adjusting with the children, and I may even retrain into something more AI proof (currently in comms / writing). I guess I'm just nervous because I'm choosing to leave employment and a career (albeit temporarily) and be reliant upon someone else.

• and finally, I guess there are all the potential administrative and logistical complications of joining forces with a damn yankee (otherwise known as marrying my fiancé). The kids already have American and British citizenship / passports, U.K. bank accounts, and NHS numbers as well as American social security numbers - I want them to have options to settle in either country as they grow, but am I missing anything?

Thanks for reading of you made it this far! Any insight? Anything I haven’t thought of? Am I focusing on the wrong things? Please be kind. I’m at the tale end of PND and catastrophising like crazy!

Most of this is accurate other than that a K-1 visa holder applies to adjust their status to Green Card immediately after marriage, which has to be within 90 days of arriving in the country.

During that time you can get EADs (permit to work) but they only last 90 days and are painful to renew. IME this wasn't a problem and I was easily able to get and hold down a job, but that was years ago so I can't say how it is these days. Dealing with the USCIS is something I am glad I will never have to do again.

Definitely all valuable food for thought.

@mindutopia

"But really, I wouldn't commit my children and I to living anywhere I'd never lived for life essentially."

This is a great point and half the reason for my post. There's one thing me being adventurous but with kids I need to consider things differently. This is also going on the list of things to discuss in more detail with fiancé!

I’m British married to an American, living on the East Coast. I moved here several years ago and have citizenship now.

Re. Permanent Residency. You have to wait three years to apply if you’re married to an American. You’re given short-term ( maybe 12-month?) visas while you’re waiting so you can work. My information is out-of-date though so definitely check.

We have a good life here and my children are very settled. Each state is v. different-where I live, for example, women’s health services are being increased, not restricted, this area is v. Pro-choice. I personally wouldn’t want to live in Texas, although I’ve heard that Austin is lovely. I have couldn’t stand the weather, it’s far too hot and humid..just googled and it’ll be 104F tomorrow, 106 on Thursday…I’d be hiding indoors. 😂

I use Apple Pay everywhere except Walmart.

@Plasticplantpot said exactly what I was going to say. The US has its issues definitely but Brit’s also consume a disproportionate amount of Americans negative news and have this extreme black and white view of the US, and mumsnet in particular.

The fact remains despite the issues in the US more people will move to the US than the UK if they have access to both hence why our immigration policy is now driven by trying to poach nurses and teachers from poor countries in African trying to spin a £20k salary as amazing.

You seem to have a balanced view so decide with your partner.

@parietal

"If you don't move, what will your fiance do? can he stay in the UK or will it end your relationship?"

We could do a U.K. partner visa and then marry here, but he'd likely then have to sell the (gorgeous!) house to reduce outgoings, and probably wouldn't get a high paying job here initially (niche skills ). Ending the relationship before we've given it our all isn't an option, not with two children to consider

I live in Chicago and have never ever heard of anyone waiting 4 months just to see a GP. I had a bad sore throat last week thag I thought might be Steph but turned out to be allergies and I got a same day appointment with Northwestern Medicine.

Can you afford to buy a home in the Uk? Do you meet the income thresholds for immigration to the US or the UK? Where will his salary be higher? Will you be working in the UK or not?

This ain't my first rodeo I moved countries once to find myself without a job, stayed, made friends for life and then met my fiancé. I am not the kind of person to remain bored or friendless for long (although your post is important for me to consider - making friends will be one of my priorities!)

Hahaha ALL your American friends are miserable lol, you need new friends as misery likes company lol.

Where did you hear that, @HopelessEstateAgents ? Of course you can use Apple Pay here!

See this is another positive in many ways - unlike the U.K., I feel the mobility between states would be like changing countries almost, so if we don't 'fit' in one then we can find somewhere else to settle and not feel like we were moving away from an important orbit (like London for example)

And I also wouldn't move to Florida 😆

Trust me, my daughters will be raised knowing about biological realism and the history of feminism :) But yes, good point. I wonder what things will be like when they're school age. And indeed, what it will be like in the U.K.!

If it's Austin, I'm familiar with both Austin and Texas but I've lived in other parts.
I would consider East/West coast for health, culture etc. but not for politics.
Texas for neither!
I would seriously worry about women's health in Texas though I do have dear friends who live there and aren't moving, it's their home.
Re diabetes: my family member with diabetes gets all the pods etc. and Libre from the NHS. I see so many small children and now adults with Libre in the UK, and though I don't know that many children with diabetes in the UK (my relative is an adult), one good friend with a teenager with diabetes has a pump, and I don't remember any issues getting that.
My relative has lived in the US and was with an HMO but it was a fairly short stay (6 months or so) so had taken almost all the insulin needed over there. The prices for insulin in the US were crazy and the HMO said they would not prescribe what was used in the UK until my relative had "failed" with the generic offering.
Those who love the US system are clearly in the tiny minority, have a very well paying stable job etc. etc.

@Tophy124 - you say you can afford for you to be a SAHM - but could you afford for you to work? Being a SAHM with older children may not be your choice, and it's often not very secure (even if you don't divorce, if your DH loses his job or gets ill and you need extra income, your earning potential will be very low). You would be VERY unlikely to get proper maternity leave like in the UK, or time off for sick children etc.

One of the ways inequality is perpetuated in the US is that you either work all the hours there are (no part time, no maternity leave) OR you have to give up entirely and your skills just fade away etc. Then you are left at the whim of your ex if you divorce, or you can't contribute to the family if something drastic happens.

I live in a semi rural area of New York. When my GP moved out of the area I was able to switch to another one in the same practice immediately. @RantyAnty, where did you live where you couldn't find a GP for four months?

@Greenfree

I have family in the U.K., but we've always been a far flung family so that's ok (although having said that, my mum is getting older!). He has family in the US but in a state some way away, and similarly has lived overseas a lot so they aren't in each others pockets. He doesn't have a huge support network in the state where we'll both live either, and if anything I'm the more social so I'll be busy getting that in place asap! Good point re the divorce laws in our state though.

I'm a Brit in the USA and i'd never move back home. I've been here 15+ years now and have a green card. I'm married to an American, but came here on my own and worked to be where I am. I have many ex pat friends i've met over the years, and the one that did what you are proposing (moving while not working, as you legally cant) found it incredibly lonely. I remember her saying she was at the gym trying to make friends and everyone thought she was a total weirdo. It takes a lot of work to meet people when we're no longer 18 I think. I found when I was new here and in a relationship that I ended up having my ex's friends be my friends just through socialising, and that didn't end well at all when we broke up, and I lost almost my entire friend group. If you come here, really make the effort to meet your own friends, and create your own little bit of independence that is "yours". It helps take a strain off a relationship (in my experience). I love living in US (except for politics and guns) but I live in a very democratic, anti gun state. The thought of being in a democratic city in a republican state doesn't give me overly comforting vibes, with regards to the anti women's rights bills being passed, and the upcoming election. I echo others in that it can be incredibly expensive to live here. I have a toddler and an infant, and neither gets paid for daycare until they are 4-5 when universal T-K/Kindegarten kicks in, so we pay close to $4.5k a month in childcare costs, just so that we can work and not lose our minds by being home all the time. You will find fruit, vegetables, meats, eating out and tipping here a big increase for costs. In saying all that, I love it here, and wouldn't trade it for anything.

@LittleGreyGoose what about family?

in my view though the job opportunities, healthcare, political situation are all worth thinking about, how far you are from family has a much bigger impact if relationships are good.

im guessing as you’ve not mentioned them, that you’re not that close to your family (parents, siblings?)

especially as you’ve had children - a poster thinking of this before her kids I’d caution that what feels fine child free can feel very different once you’re a mother.

my DH is European and pre kids I would have moved to his country with him. Now I would refuse, and if we’d been there when DC1 was born I would have wanted to move back to the U.K. asap.

this is partly missing my own family, partly wanting to keep his overbearing parents at arms length (which is why he’s happy to live here) and partly familiarity with the culture which i enjoy and am professionally successful in.

what about his family? How well do you know them? Where do they live? Moving to his hometown with his family around the corner is a different ballgame to moving to a US city with them a plane ride away.

Yep, the employment rights is a consideration and one I shouldn't ignore just because I'm not going into a job right away.
Kids are definitely duel nationalities so we can always move back if things don't work out

We lived in the Houston area for years before moving back to the UK. As per several PP I would move back in a heartbeat if I could for all the reasons mentioned. All depends on your income level. If you’ve got the money you have access to some of the best healthcare and have the option to put kids in the British International school if you didn’t like the local system.

Hi! Yes I could afford to work once my children are older. We live off my husbands salary entirely and so when I return to work my salary will help pay for early or late school clubs (same as I’d have to pay in the UK). We can afford nursery now, but I wanted to stay home for a number of reasons. If I go back to work we will be a lot better off than we are now, even with nursery costs. I do plan on returning to the workforce once my children are older, I’m even looking into US colleges and it’s been so interesting to me to meet so many Americans or people who live here who go back to college later in life! I knew a lot of mature students on my degree course in the Uk, but the amount of older adults I meet here doing masters etc is quite crazy! That may be the circles we are running in tho.

I think I saw Austin being mentioned, and I have a few friends there with young children. They love it. No state tax on wages (which is huge here), and it is a beautiful place. I went a while ago, but I remember the walk by the river being great, and it generally just having a lovely buzz to it. It isn't cheap there to live, but salaries compensate for that by and large. My earnings are exponentially larger now than they ever would have been at home. I also feel like there are substantially more opportunities. My family are also scattered, so we don't really have child support no matter what country we are in. You just get used to that. I kind of like the "whats for you won't go past you" mentality. If it feels right to you, and you have thought it out. Go for it!

@HamBone

Not on public transport, not in multiple places..

Yep, you've summed up a lot of my fears about the tension brewing (although I wonder how much of that is algorithmic fear mongering in my newsfeed). My fiancé however isn't as worried, which doesn't help make me less worried, just more that I'll be the one getting us into survivalist mode if that time comes! But on a serious note, yes, the creeping Trumpism is so pervasive that I am keeping one beady eye on American news at all times and as mentioned previously would move the family back (and with fiancé blessing if it was in kids interests).

Thank you for writing a nice stable post that doesn't make me feel like it's the worst idea in the world! You're right, of course, it will all depend on our immediate situation/ employment/ location etc.