Should I move to America or stay in U.K.?

[LittleGreyGoose]

Hello,

I am applying for a fiancé visa to move to America (once granted I would emigrate, marry my American fiancé, and then adjust my status to permanent resident). I would love some perspective, not only from those who have moved / already live there but also anyone who might be planning (or dreaming!) of emigrating. We could try to settle in the U.K. instead so I want to know I'm doing the right thing, purely from a geographical / political / future-proofing move. I'm trying to look at this dispassionately but I’m sleep-deprived and dealing with post-birth hormones so I can’t think straight!

For context we have a baby and a toddler and would be moving to a liberal city but in a republican state. He has a house there already in a good neighbourhood. Currently I’m renting.
For more context he’s great but I’d be foolish to not consider what happens if it doesn’t work out (I do know that my resident status would be permanent after a few years and not reliant upon being married, for example). For even more context, I have lived in other countries before and am an adventurer at heart so the move itself isn’t an issue! Just now I have children so don’t want to mess it up.

Some initial thoughts:

• I have plenty to like about the U.K. but it feels like we are on a steady and slow decline. This makes me feel emigrating is the best option but I also foresee America having its own wobble. Am I naive to think that America is still a land of opportunity or should we go with ‘better the devil you know Britain’?

• while I have no faith in British politics any more, and still rage about the foot shooting mess that is Brexit, it's not exactly rosy in the US either and if Trump gets back into the White House then will I have just jumped from the frying pan into the fire?

• Or, am I just being melodramatic?! I do worry about forthcoming political and social unrest in America and joke to my fiancé about getting 'militia ready' and how I’m lucky I still have my collection of 90s grunge army jackets, but there are credible murmurings of concern for the stability of the country. At least in the U.K., even if everything is a bit shit, I don't worry about this.

• on a more personal level I’ll be leaving a job that I love and will have to wait until I’m given a green card before being able to work in America (which could take up to a year after we get married). This is fine, in theory - it'll be good to spend that time adjusting with the children, and I may even retrain into something more AI proof (currently in comms / writing). I guess I'm just nervous because I'm choosing to leave employment and a career (albeit temporarily) and be reliant upon someone else.

• and finally, I guess there are all the potential administrative and logistical complications of joining forces with a damn yankee (otherwise known as marrying my fiancé). The kids already have American and British citizenship / passports, U.K. bank accounts, and NHS numbers as well as American social security numbers - I want them to have options to settle in either country as they grow, but am I missing anything?

Thanks for reading of you made it this far! Any insight? Anything I haven’t thought of? Am I focusing on the wrong things? Please be kind. I’m at the tale end of PND and catastrophising like crazy!

Nope. Guns, healthcare, misogyny, drugs, no reproductive autonomy, lack of employment rights, religion, to name a few of the issues, it's not a civilised country is it.

I am a Brit who married an American and I live in the US. I love it here and barely miss the UK. I live in a conservative state.

I also will add its extremely detrimental to a child to live in a different country to their parent if the parent is actively involved and a good parent and even if my husband and I divorce I will stay in the US for my child to have two parents, or my child would spend all summers here with their Dad if we moved back to the Uk (and actually yes you can move back if the other parent agrees to it as I have a friend who moved to the UK with her 100% American children as the Dad agreed on it).

Id consider where you will have the best quality of life.

I really think it depends how rich you are.

If you are rich, then perhaps you should consider America although that doesn't negate the problems of guns, abortion, etc and all the other issues that people have pointed out.

For those of you who love the US healthcare system what state did you or do you live in?

I lived there for awhile and had to wait 4 months just to get my first GP appointment. I was told to go to an emergency clinic if I ran out of my prescription medication before then

Thanks again everyone. This is the perfect thread, some real gems for me to consider.

And yes to those who guessed, Austin :)

There are a few common themes which I’ve answered below, but I’ll reply to a few of you individually too. So grateful to everyone though for their thoughts.

Many have quite rightly asked what would happen to me / the kids if we split. Thing is, I wouldn’t want to take the children away from their father to a different continent - I grew up with my dad working abroad all my life and it affected me hugely (which to be fair might be blinding me somewhat). So, (hypothetically) I’m not scared of staying in America and co-parenting if things were to go south. Conversely, he probably wouldn’t be averse to moving to the U.K. to co-parent here either (he has no deep-rooted pull to America, having worked overseas most his life). Our children are our world and I hope that guides any decision we both make. But although the logistics of splitting up is something we have discussed in general terms, these comments have made me realise we should discuss in more depth.

Also, to those pointing out the gun culture, and the active shooter drills… this is probably our biggest fear and the main reason why we may decide to sack this plan off and stay U.K. side. Not only the guns themselves but the normalising of violence by having drills is mind blowing to me.

Some other comments speak to homophobia, misogyny and racism… well, yes. But these are a concern to me wherever I live - and I lived and worked in the Middle East for a while. And as others have said it also depends on the state. I don’t think it’s a reason not to move, rather to make sure we move to the right place (and to do what we can to help change from within, if that isn’t too saccharine a comment).

Health insurance - good points made. Again, it’s something we have discussed but I’m afraid I’ve not really wrapped my head around it as I should have so this is also going on the list to discuss with fiancée.

No way. Guns , healthcare , lack of holidays , abortion issue , Trump. If you split up he could stop you taking the kids back to UK. Can't he live here ?

People on this thread shitting all over America do seriously need to consider what outsiders think of the UK lol! If you want to only lead with stereotypes maybe consider how the UK is seen.

A racist shithole, with bad healthcare, tiny crappy housing, huge class divides, ridiculous taxes, a weirdo royal family, crappy weather, expensive bills, bad dental care, shitty schooling, political nightmare, will bend over to any other country. Unless you’re wealthy the UK is a pretty shitty place to live. And if you don’t like these stereotypes then maybe don’t push the American ones if you haven’t actually lived here and are basing it on the news, as the UK doesn’t come off great either.

I've lived in 5 different states. West coast, east coast, midwest, and south.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but your children are already American.

The US has citizenship based on both "jus sanguinis" and "jus soli".

"Jus Sanguinis" is citizenship through "blood". In other words, if one parent of a child has American citizenship, the US Citizenship is also granted to the children regardless of where they were born. I am American and my husband is English and two of my children were born in England so they have UK/US Citizenship. Your children will have that too.

"Jus Soli" is American Citizenship is granted when someone is born in the US. Boris Johnson was born in NY and only lived in the US until he was one-years-old but he too had US Citizenship. He eventually had to renounce it.

How do you know what relatives,and friends other people have? They just don't announce it. And, anyway, my experience of the UK doesn't chime with that of many people on here.

Yesterday we went on a coach trip to Highgrove gardens. Lovely weather. Great day out. We were treated in a friendly and courteous way. We visit lots of historic houses and always are treated well. And these places of interest that provide a good day out, get govt support to keep going.

Got caught in flash floods on the way home through Birmingham. Flooded roads where cars got stuck. People were getting out of their cars to help push cars out if the,water. The police were there to guide them others through and were pushing vehicles too. It was getting late but everyone stayed good humoured and did what they could.

When we got home a house a street away had been hit by lightning. Fire brigade was there. Neighbours took the family in.

The UK is a great country. I have a good life here and I've never been in a well paying job.

My mum had a seizure at 1am 6 weeks ago. She went into hospital. All tests done. Kept in 3 days before release. Then 10 days ago she fell out of bed at 6am. Ambulance took her into hospital. Tests done. Released. I can't think she'd get better anywhere else.

I'm not sticking up for nhs because I have lots of issues with them but to imply that the US system is great, is a bit blind.
In 2017 I had a back operation. I found a fantastic site and forum based in the US. I had the best recovery ever and I swear it was down to that forum. But there were Americans (and Australians) on there complaining about their system. They had enormous deductibles of thousands of dollars that they struggled to pay. And they had to time when ops could be done otherwise they'd get caught and have to pay 2 years deductibles. And their waits could still be still long. And the surgeons often operated on a number of different conditions because the US system enables that which led to fewer successful outcomes than the UK where doctors are very specialised and the nhs limits which operations they do. Lots of complaints from people actually going through the US system. And, of course, inflated accounting which we won't go into.

Im happy to say there is so much that is fantastic about the US medical system but just to declare one is so much better than the other is really quite blinkered.

However, I'm not against the US at all. I think its a great country. As I said on page 1, I advised the op to go to the US and experience it herself. I hate all this running down of different countries. We all do some things better and some things worse.

Well we put in for the application ages ago (when we only had the one child!) and it's only now nearing completion. If we were to marry in the U.K., we'd pretty much have to go back to the beginning and be looking at another few years before moving. Of course, we could marry here and not move (hence the post) - we have both agreed that when D day comes and I need to leave the U.K., if we get cold feet we can just cancel and do plan B instead.

These threads always end up here with posters hitting out. It’s not a great place to ask.

Op, Austin is lovely and very very liberal compared to the rest of Texas!!

I would not move to any country that has such an unhealthy relationship with firearms. You can pick them up in the supermarket. Would you worry about your children's safety at school? - would you be happy about them having gun attack practices?

A teacher friend and all his family moved to the US under a year's job/house exchange but came home after a few months. He lost masses of money and they had to rent somewhere as the US family were in their home. But he said there was no way he would have stayed there with his children.

Genuinely not hitting out, just trying to say that for every commenter posting negative stereotypes about the US, just pause for a second and consider what the ones for the UK are. I’m from
the UK and love it, but a lot of people would happily tell you all the things wrong with it if you asked this on an American site for example. It’s just good for thought, try to look past the stereotypes.

I am an immigrant to the US, albeit not from the UK. The main issue I see is that you would be financially vulnerable because of any delays in ability to accept a job in the USA because of your visa status. Once you are married, you cannot apply for a green card (via marriage) for at least a couple of years, so you'd have to work out what visa status would allow you to work, or else you'd have to go without employment until you got a temporary work permit when you applied for your green card. (If you decide to move, I would suggest you get an immigration lawyer to tell you your options there so that you can minimise how long you have to be unemployed)

I think you would also be legally vulnerable because of having established a domicile for your children in the USA. I don't know the details but again you might want to talk to an immigration lawyer in the USA before you make a decision so you know what your situation will be.

So in theory you could end up with no job, and if your marriage doesn't work out, no green card, and no legal ability to take your kids back to UK to live.

Your fiance on the other hand, would not be risking his job. Would be getting to see his kids, and would be establishing the US as his children's official place of residence.

In other words, YOU would be taking on the majority of the risk and your fiance would be taking on much less risk.

He would however be taking on a small amount of risk after 2 years because once you apply for a green card through marriage, he would be agreeing to support you financially for at least 10 years. Again, please confirm this with a US immigration lawyer as it was years ago I dealt with this. But to get to that point, your marriage would have to survive the few years until you could apply for a green card, and he would have to actually follow through with the green card application.

Having a green card also means you'd have to live in the USA 6 months of the year to retain it, or, if you switched to US citizenship, you'd be liable for taxation as a US citizen.

Why can't your fiance move to the UK instead?

I would not move to any country that has such an unhealthy relationship with firearms. You can pick them up in the supermarket.

Just in case people don't realize this is pure hyperbole.

https://gunsafetytrainingpro.com/united-states-firearm-purchase-requirements/

Thanks for this overview. I kinda get the same feeling about the U.K., it just feels like everything is a hustle. I have a decent job but couldn't afford to work if it were just me and the kids, and if my fiancé were to come here I don't think he could get as well paid a job as the US. Plus, every time I've visited the states I just got this 'can-do' attitude that really resonates with me, so different to the U.K. and it's slightly self-deprecating vibe

Yes also to the house - it's so much bigger than what we could have here, and I love the feeling of space that you get in America. It brings out the cowboy in me :)

Yes, Austin is more liberal than the rest of Texas but how long will that be allowed to continue? And the abortion restrictions are statewide. I live in the US, I think a lot of the comments on MN about the US are often unfair but I would not move to Austin.

https://www.npr.org/2023/05/22/1177425651/texas-women-sue-abortion#:~:text=Sarah%20McCammon%2FNPR-,In%20March%202023%2C%20five%20women%20and%20two%20doctors%20sued%20the,lawsuit%20as%20of%20May%2022.

https://www.texastribune.org/2023/05/15/texas-legislature-local-control/

Ha! I also correctly guessed Austin. Omaha was another thought.
Texas politics are very maddening. And long have been.
I would struggle with them.
Was ok with Molly Ivins around to take the piss, but since she's long gone...

What will you do if you have an unwanted pregnancy, OP?
TX would have your neighbours spying on you about it.

Yes - this divide is worrying me a lot. Keeping an eye on the recent past and future rumblings of discontent, I do worry that we're moving to a country about to lose its mind, although as other posters have said, this affects different areas in different ways (admittedly Texas isn't one of the best places ) The rolling back of women's rights, the lurch to hard right to appease Trump... I just don't know if I could fully relax as you say. However, although we would remain for a few years to settle / give it a shot, there would also be nothing stopping us from coming back to the U.K. (and hopefully kinder climes!) if things get worse.

LOL, the country barely supports the basics E.g Apple Pay...

What will you do it you have a wanted pregnancy? But your waters break at 19 weeks and there is still a heartbeat? Your choices in Texas are wait and see if you get an infection or fly to someplace like Colorado after paying for the tickets, organizing childcare, and worrying about follow-on care when you return to Austin.

All my American friends are miserable, trapped in corporate jobs so they don't lose health insurance and terrified of the violence.

And you NEVER move countries to be financially dependent on a man. THATS BATSHIT.