Boris stands down as MP with immediate effect part 2

[IClaudine]

New thread!

My point is why would you personally want to break the rules if you understood that they were for the common good. Did you want different less restrictive rules?

My theory FWIW is that the difference resulted from Johnson not giving up on his ideas about herd immunity so the 'relaxed regime' at Downing St reflected that view

As for funerals - one example early in the pandemic was the virus spreading out of Lombardy into southern Italy [and beyond] by way of an infected mourner travelling south to a family funeral

So much of what gives comfort at a funeral closeness, embracing, kissing make for easy transmission of the virus - unlike at a wedding for instance plus family and friends travelling from afar

Restrictions around funerals were logically severe but inevitably added to the pain and distress of the the mourners

Yes I agree on all these points. Essentially BJ didn't agree on restrictions so he allowed his own little fiefdom to flout them.

TBH that makes it even worse, he locked down the country, cost us 100s of billions but neither him nor the Govt actually believed in them.

Where does that leave their credibility and Sunaks too, he got a FPN too.

I didn't want to break the rules.
I expected the person and the people who set the rules to follow the rules.

And he and they didn't

I assumed that the rules were in place for a reason and that they should be taken seriously.

I assumed that Downing Street would take them seriously.

But this is where we get back to Sir Keir had a beer. He would have locked us down even longer yet there he was standing in an airless room socialising with his colleagues. It may have been within the rules at the time but there's no way in hell that was a safe way of working. Viruses don't care about rules. That told me a bit about KS's character.

He would have locked us down even longer

Is there any evidence for that?

@derxa, I see where you’re coming from but by the end of April 2021 we had made good ground with vaccinations, we had access to widespread testing and contact isolation. Case rates were way down from the peak that prompted lockdowns.

Vaccinations alone (and at that point they did have an effect on transmission of the variant in circulation) make a huge difference to the circumstances around gatherings.

Risk assessing in April 2021 was very different to risk assessing prior to January 2021.

I think Johnson has ADHD and a desperation to be liked by the average person and so will say anything (even if it's lies) to keep being liked. He is probably a good laugh out at a drinks do and interesting company-- but I think he's scared to make decisions that would be unpopular with ordinary people and is totally unsuitable as a leader of a party or PM. I've heard so many non politically minded people say 'well I like him because I would do the same in his position and he seems human' - that really isn't a good reason to vote someone into power. You only have to look at the current bunch in power to see that many of the population have a very low bar. Who the hell would vote for Gullis and think 'yep- he's perfect as an MP'

That told me a bit about KS's character.

All parties were out campaigning during that time, Johnson was pictured pulling pints. Labour did a full risk assessment which they published

It sounds like you expect KS to be holier than holy.

Show me a picture of any one of them visiting ill relatives when we couldn’t (to protect vulnerable people and reduce risk) , going to care homes when we couldn't (ditto). You are comparing 2 entirely different things.

How did anyone miss the fact we weren't mixing to prevent spread and limit the number of ill people. It wasn't about isolating from I'll people solely. Especially since we knew there was transmission from people who weren't showing symptoms.

🙄

No wonder things went wrong when the general public couldn't even grasp the basics

I don’t know about ADHD but Boris has a lot of traits that remind me of addicts generally (who represent a large percentage of adults who’ve gone undiagnosed for MH/ND issues).

Frankly I think the man had an incredibly dysfunctional upbringing and it shows heavily. The man’s a mess. If he hadn’t been brought up with decent finances he’d be in the gutter.

That may be true but I'm saying that the optics were not that great for him or Angela Raynor who seems to be acting holier than thou at the moment.

I don't think they're acting holier than thou. They're acting holier than Boris and his government. Which 1) they actually were at the time and which 2) isn't a high bar.

The optics weren't good based on a few grainy pictures jumped on by the DM

Hold on, you nor i know anything about what Starmer would have done, he wasn't privy to the real time scientific advice but went along with the 1st LD and there was cross party support (more or less)

We don't know what he would have done later on, remember the job of the opposition is to oppose, quite often, when in power they change tack as they get the real picture.

Not sure why you think it wasn't a safe way of working, by late April 2021, vaccine roll out was going well, most vulnerable people had got a jab and Covid had not proved to be so deadly to younger folk... Starmer could only work to the rules as laid out by the Govt or should he have ad hoc 'd his own ones?

Well that's the image he tries to portray. I don't mind him.

Its exhaustingly pathetic

I'm going to nick this phrase for real life!

Oh come off it! Are you saying the DM fabricated the whole thing?

I mean as far as optics go politicians generally always come across disingenuously and, at the very least, borderline smug. They present a very carefully cultivated image publicly with input from people hired for that specific purpose. It’s undeniable their words and actions are scrutinised to the nth degree, personally I think it’s fine to look past the bad acting and gain context from from wider information (the bit where this current government really fall down imho).

The impression of ‘holier than thou’ is part of the dance of marketing yourself as ‘not the other’ which, from my point of view, is a good selling point at the moment. Given the requirements above, I wouldn’t expect much less.

They created the whole furore

Well it is the DM. It’s not like they don’t have a huge bias or form for trying to spin stories.

All media does it but the DM is particularly transparent in its objectives.

Of course they did, because they only focused on it, after BJ's troubles.

If it were that important, it would of gained traction in right wing media at the time, it didn't because they didn't highlight it.

The DM is currently working out how to make what Boris writes for them recoup the £1,000,000 they've bunged him

In the words of Johnny Rotten ...

"Ever get the feeling you've been had ?"

'right wing media'? It was splattered over the whole media. That picture is popping up on Twitter today.