Ioan Gruffudd daughter in news

[HelenaBellena]

Again this is in the news with him getting a restraining order. I always thought Alice was nuts but I've been reading that Ioan isn't as nice as he makes out. And those silly staged pics of him and his girlfriend.

It’s absolutely ‘convenient’. Alice has repeatedly shown that she hates her ex husband more than she ‘loves’ her children and there’s no evidence to suggest that’s changed (in actuality her actions of resharing the photographs of her children in distress shows she’s gotten worse in her attempts to prove she’s ‘winning’.).
I believe she had an ulterior motive, whether it was what happened or some variation of it we’ll never know, my opinion is Alice was almost certain that for one reason or another the children would never end up spending the night with Ioan as planned.

I believe she’s a narcissist so when I say she ‘loves’ her children, I’m not sure she’s even capable of love, not in a way that loving parents would recognise. It’s not possible to ‘diagnose’ someone you’ve never met but what is factual is that even if Alice isn’t a narcissist, she’s repeatedly emotionally abused her children and that’s not something a loving parent would do. I think people give her the benefit of the doubt because it’s so hard for loving people to get their heads round that there are mothers/fathers out there who would intentionally harm their children for all types of reasons including spite and hatred of an ex.

I'm not sure if that was the section that the other poster was referring to, but it's not a huge leap for a child to make that connection in their simplistic minds.

If at the age of 8 my mum had told me I'd no longer having a Mummy because Daddy told me to kill myself, I'd certainly be extremely worried.

Okay, but the assumption that a child may (or may not) make that connection, and Alice “repeatedly telling her children that she would kill herself if they left her” and it being heard and documented by others are two different things, right?

I’m actually getting a little fed up of constantly having to explain why that is a lie, when it is an obvious lie, despite, what is quite concerning actually, the number of posters determined to gaslight me into accepting it as something Alice said when in fact she didn’t say it. And it certainly wasn’t heard and documented by anyone.

Call me old fashioned, but I think honesty is important, and if causal lying about something a serious as Alice “repeatedly telling her children that she would kill herself if they left her” is acceptable to the majority of the posters involved in this discussion, then I don’t want to be a part of it anymore.

No it’s absolutely not a huge leap at all for either a child or an adult to believe Alice is telling her child/ren that she would commit suicide and it’s also not a leap to think this happened on more than one occasion (I.e this specific example and the many references of Alice on Twitter saying she would not want to be alive if she had to ‘share’ her children ( Alice said her children do read her Twitter and SM)

I’m struggling to get my head round why anyone’s focus might be on the semantics of what another poster claimed rather than the real issue which is that two children have been terrorised/emotionally blackmailed by their mother with the notion that she might commit suicide. It shouldn’t matter if it was one time or more than that, Alice is no less of a monster if she said it ‘just’ one time. In this specific example we hear of the instance where a little girl was told she ‘probably would not have a mummy anymore’. That’s just too sick to even begin to unpick, that should be what’s important, not how many times it might have been said or implied.

I accept those exact words weren't spoken @Vivi0, and I expect some others on here do too.

However, like many of the things written on this thread and other threads on this relationship breakdown, my guess is the poster verbalised the sentiment of what was being implied; clearly Alice is exposing her DC to many things that no child should have to hear from their parents, including veiled suicide threats (despite the exact words not being spoken).

This is my sentiment too, it is semantics and a bizarre reaction to be so seemingly elated that you caught someone in what you believe is a lie, when in fact the most concerning part of the picture - exposing your DC to talk of suicide in ANY context doesn’t really seem to concern you at all?

Alice has a few hard core supporters I am aware, who also find it hard to really use critical thinking when it comes to Alice’s plight. They always give a side nod to Alice not being at her parenting best, then always, always launch into a detailed unpicking of her ex to find plausibility in her story. This is despite the fact Alice is a prolific over dramatic, attention seeking liar and has been for a very long time on SM and in real life, when she has been documented dramatically exploding at people, threatening to harm herself and others, breaking the law, harassing people and exposing all of her children’s private issues. This woman actually frightens me for the sake of her children as it seems she has no limits.

Absolute nail on the head

Alice frightens me too because I think she wants ultimate revenge on Ioan. What I’m thinking is probably too dark to say on here but I believe she is already grooming her eldest to be part of that final act of vengeance. As I believe Alice doesn’t love her children, I think Ella will be nothing more than collateral damage to Alice and I think she’s prepared to sacrifice Ella one way or another just so she can hurt Ioan in an unspeakable way

The poster didn’t verbalise the sentiment of what was being implied though: she specifically said that Alice “repeatedly told her children that she would kill herself if they left her”, that it was heard and documented by others (“heard” being the salient word here) and that she was looking at it in the court documents but wouldn’t post it because of how “vile” I was to her, but we all know she wouldn’t post it because it doesn’t exist with the documents.

Now, and this is the problem that arises for me, but let me be clear, I don’t condone Alice’s behaviour at all, I do not think she is putting her children’s well-being above her own feelings and I believe she has caused her daughters emotional harm - it does makes me wonder what else is being inferred and assumed from things Alice has said by people who view her through an extremely negative lense and being packaged and presented as fact and “well documented in the court documents”, when it is not.

She has publically behaved in a manner which does not reflect well on her at all, so why the need to lie about things she hasn’t actually said? Or done? To make her look worse? Why? Why would someone want to lie about a stranger they have never met and has no impact on their lives?

I truly believe some people (myself included) have got so invested in this “drama” that they’ve forgotten that this is actually people’s lives, not a reality show, and they have no qualms in making up really horrible stuff about people they think deserve it, whilst believing themselves that it is true. It’s not normal. I am well and truly done with this thread.

This thread is getting batshittier by the minute. And everyone who has contributed (including me) is to blame.

it is as though AE and IG’s toxicity has spilled over onto MN.

The poster didn’t verbalise the sentiment of what was being implied though: she specifically said that Alice “repeatedly told her children that she would kill herself if they left her”, that it was heard and documented by others (“heard” being the salient word here) and that she was looking at it in the court documents but wouldn’t post it because of how “vile” I was to her, but we all know she wouldn’t post it because it doesn’t exist with the documents

@Vivi0 no need to leave the thread. I think the poster who said that has left in any case.

It does appear she was mistaken. I hope nobody actually lied because that would be concerning.

Is Alice pushing it with that Instagram post and the terms of the RO?

I don’t think it’s the post itself but her replies which might be a DVRO breaker e.g. other people saying Ioan’s x,y,z and Alice replying with things like thank you, you’re right and you’ve hit the nail on the head.

I do think this post will come back to haunt her though but more in the sense of professionals assessing her fitness as a parent (and rightly so, she’s reshared photographs that grossly invade a moment where the children are processing their emotions).
The sentiment of announcing the girls love each other would be nice and she would have been believed (that she had no ulterior motives in saying that) if she’d used any other photo of them together and smiling (she must have some). Instead she shared to her 87K followers photographs where at least one of her children appears to be in distress. No professional is going to think that’s acceptable.

The sentiment of announcing the girls love each other would be nice and she would have been believed (that she had no ulterior motives in saying that) if she’d used any other photo of them together and smiling (she must have some). Instead she shared to her 87K followers photographs where at least one of her children appears to be in distress. No professional is going to think that’s acceptable.

Agree!

I don’t think it’s a breach, she is not prevented from talking about her divorce or any of the court processes. What she is not allowed to do is tag him in posts (she can’t she is blocked) or name him alongside accusations against him on social media, or make statements about him like that he is a child abuser and that he’s going to get what’s coming to him. She is getting round this by liking comments and saying thank you, also it has appeared for a long time she has been leaking information to a select few people (including a journo) to post on her behalf

@Vivi0 you don’t have to leave, but your strong feelings about her ex don’t match up with having strong feelings about Alice, despite her clearly being the antagonist here.

She has talked openly about suicide so many times, and it is indeed referenced in court documents that it is not a great leap that this is one of the things she uses to keep her children terrified even if not using those exact words. It’s one tool in her emotional abuse toolkit. Part of parentification is to manipulate your children into being your protector and care giver out of fear and guilt (you think it’s love though but it’s usually fear and guilt). She has her DC in the thick FOG and is using that against her ex ‘look how much they love ME’ because in this household they are the strong ones who are supporting poor sad bed ridden mommy and part of that mission is to punish daddy for what he has done because it makes mommy happy, and it also protects mommy from the threat of daddy. A child learning that daddy wants mommy dead and is trying to snatch them from her and give them a new mommy is going to be afraid that being around dad might result in something bad happening to mom and that he’s the source of all the pain and anguish. They will resent him so much and each time they are successful in hurting him, Alice celebrates and love bombs them and claims it brings them all closer. A reward if you like.

Whereas with Ioan there is no reward for them, seeing him is seen as abusive as he tries to parent them by telling them their poor behaviour is not ok and he’s worried about them. At no point during the car journey either Ella, Ioan or the therapist describe, there is any documented conversation around not wanting to meet Bianca at his home. The visit had plenty of time to fail/end before getting to his house. They go to various places which the DC do not like, but they do not seem to discuss not wanting to meet her. Seen has they have chosen to leave all their visitation with Ioan by running away each time, they don’t do this before then, they even go inside the apartment and they do meet her. It is interesting that they are also accusing Ioan’s previous chaperone of abuse, so he had to find a new one. The DC still could run away, but they don’t. They decide to trash the apartment before running away. It is the most bizarre strange story that doesn’t make sense - unless you look at it from a planned staged event that was designed to culminate in an RO prior to the custody hearing.

I think she is pushing it very close to a breach in the comments @Menora with things like “I’m banned from telling the truth/you don’t know the full story/you will be so shocked when the truth comes out/what we/they have been through it so devastating/you won’t be able to believe the story of what I’ve been put through/the truth will come out” etc

I knew someone who had a restraining order against him who posted photos with quotes on Instagram that said things like “revenge is best served come/karma will come around” etc, with very ambiguous comments underneath (but everyone knew they were about his ex and new partner it was still quite obvious!)

Screenshots were shown to the judge next time he was in court, and access to his children and restraining rules kept in place. I don’t know the specifics of how much influence the screenshots had, but they certainly painted of a picture.

*served cold !

If you were submitting this essay for assessment it would receive an E. Some good ideas but not backed up by factual evidence.

There is so much conjecture delivered as fact. Even to the extent that you think you can second guess what is going on in the minds of those children and then you deliver this sick conjecture as fact. I find this really weird. It is as though the ability for clear thinking has given way to tabloidthink.

I am thoroughly entertained by your marking of my ‘assignment’. Do I get a detention?

Clearly it’s my my opinion of the overview of the situation of this emotional abuse and weaponising of her children, and some examples of the extensive damage it can cause. Has caused. Two young girls (one who didn’t even need to be there) went to court this week against their own father and one sobbed outside, it is heartbreaking. And Alice was so elated, gloating and pleased about it she took the heartbreaking pap photo and reposted it as proof of how much her kids love each other, and her, and how much they hate their father for attention from strangers. She even had to be legally restrained from going into her child’s phone and reposting her private texts. Yet all some people are able to focus on us nit picking peoples posts who are outraged by her behaviour. F minus back at you

🫨 now I really feel this thread is slipping into Black Mirror territory... posters treating other's opinions as a markable piece of work?!

In the Court documents it is clear that that Alice knew about Bianca's presence at the visitation. The whole visit was discussed and legal documents were signed by both parties. Alice was consulted and agreed through her lawyers in relation to a child psychologist being present to facilitate the introduction of Bianca to the girls. Ioan consulted with the therapist that the girls were seeing about the overnight.

Hiya, I discussed this in my post yesterday at 16.06
“It’s not clear if when Alice suggested the overnight visit Ioan informed her Bianca would be there. The papers seem to indicate there was some back and forth on agreeing this visitation but isn’t yet explicit as to whether Bianca was expected to be there or not as the exhibit c is missing. If Ioan did inform Alice in advance, he’s probably assumed she’s talked this through with the girls and they were on board with it. This was a mistake if he did as he can’t assume anything where Alice is concerned, he should have had this conversation with the children himself. If it comes out at a later date that the girls did agree to meet Bianca that day then I’d be a bit more sympathetic to him including her on this visitation.”

I’m not mentioning this to be an a-hole, it’s just that a few people on this thread seem more outraged by semantics than the situation unfolding. It’s gotten to the point of where those posters have been forceful with other posters saying they are trying to create facts from speculation (and I don’t want that to happen to you here just because it wasn’t explicit in the papers even it might be a valid assumption).

The extract below is from Ioan's statement to the Court. It is clear that Ioan employing the psychologist to assist in the introductions was a sensitive issue but that it had been discussed backwards and forwards and put into an agreement drafted by Alices lawyers although we don't know exactly what was agreed as I cannot find Exhibit C uploaded. It is unclear why Ella believed that this visit was Court ordered (as she writes in her own statement) when it was her mother's idea and clearly Ioan was surprised and concerned but also worried about turning down the approach.

.....................................................................................
On May11, 2023, Alice proposed through lawyers that the girls stay with me overnight. I was surprised Alice made this proposal, as for months she had refused to agree to an overnight. After a series of communications, it was agreed I would pick up the girls Friday, May 26 and they would spend the night with me and I would return them at 4:00p.m. the following day. Alice and I signed a Stipulation, which her lawyer prepared. A copy is attached as Exhibit C. I took this opportunity into careful consideration, as the suggestion came fairly out of the blue and this would be the first time that Ella and Elsie would be meeting my girlfriend Bianca. As a condition to my having the girls on May 26, Alice required that I agree to take Elsie to her aerial silk gymnastics class, and I agreed I would.

I hired Dr. Gery LeGagnoux, a psychologist who is a child therapist and
28 parenting coach, to assist with the children and the introduction of Bianca on May 26. I also consulted with Dr. Schwartz to seek advice. I reviewed emails between Alice's lawyers and my lawyers about Dr. LeGagnoux being present during my times with the girls, and the correspondence where Alice's lawyers agreed to Dr. LeGagnoux being present. I also reviewed emails between my lawyers and Alice's lawyers confirming that Dr. LeGagnoux would be with me on May 26.

At the end of the day those two made a child together and should put the child first by co parenting properly
Alice is as wrong by being so public and Ioan was wrong through cheating on her
Both of them are wrong for not keeping it private and the children have suffered more then the parents

Does anyone else get "dirty Betty" (TV show) vibes about Alice?

Taking this into account, that Alice might not have told them, he likely would have told them the plans when he collected them at the visitation if not before by text or FaceTime. Both Ella and Ioan describe having to go to the mall and a class before going back to Ioan’s apartment.

Whilst possible it’s extremely unlikely Ioan took the DC back to an apartment with Bianca inside and suddenly announced she was there, didn’t he call her from the car to let her know they were coming back early? The DC didn’t find out when they got to the apartment they were aware at some point previously it’s just not clear which point.

Ioan was not obliged to tell Alice about Bianca being there but it strikes me as unusual he would leave this information out entirely during discussions, he has a lawyer who is handling his case and it wouldn’t be the best legal approach to not disclose this, especially whilst it’s so fragile. He confirmed that Alice knew about the psychologist as this was in dispute in Ella’s RO application. Much of her anger was around the presence of the psychologist so he was addressing that point directly.

Much of the conjecture comes down to the most likely scenario, based on peoples opinion of the information they do have, their ongoing behaviour or written testimonies to date.

If the kids won’t speak to him by phone (again, speculation but Alice and Ioan have said this happens) then it’s going to be a lot harder for him to communicate with them before visitation and make sure they know what’s going on. This makes it even more difficult for the DC to have an overview of the plans if they are reluctant to communicate with him directly. From what I see, he is trying to rebuild relationships with them in a safe environment under difficult circumstances. Alice apparently served the previous visitation companion Iris with legal action and has accused her of child abuse.