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Ukraine Invasion: Part 41

998 replies

MagicFox · 06/06/2023 13:13

Welcome to thread 41 with new guidance thrashed out with regular posters to keep us on track :-) Hope you all approve!

  1. The agreed purpose of the thread is for the sharing of information and commentary on current events
  1. If you post a link please tell us where it leads/give a precis of the content
  1. Discussion and debate is welcome, but please keep it respectful
OP posts:
Thread gallery
161
Amispringy · 06/06/2023 22:58

It's sad that these threads are still going. Who'd have thought we'd have so many

Every single time I think the Russians can't get any lower, they have to prove me wrong

Complete and utter barbarians

blueshoes · 06/06/2023 23:12

@MMBaranova I hope you hear from your relatives soon and they can find a way to get in touch with you. Russia is reported to be jamming signals. Must be so worrying.

Where you do donate?

MMBaranova · 06/06/2023 23:28

If I am especially angry I sometimes contribute to crowdfunders for something specific, especially if it rains death from the sky. However, the official Zelenskyy approved route is via United24. You can specify whether you are contributing to one of five areas:

'Defence, Humanitarian Demining, Medical Aid, Rebuild Ukraine or Education and Science'.

https://u24.gov.ua/

In the early days I contributed to various charities, including a Polish Catholic one that seemed transparent. However, for anything non-military I just PayPal a relative now, as does my brother, in something of a rotation.

UNITED24 - The initiative of the President of Ukraine

UNITED24 was launched by the President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelenskyy as the main venue for collecting charitable donations in support of Ukraine. Funds will be transferred to the official accounts of the National Bank of Ukraine and allocated by assig...

https://u24.gov.ua

blueshoes · 06/06/2023 23:38

MMBaraanova, thanks for the link to United24. I may have donated to them at the start of the war but will look into it again.

It feels helpless watching these atrocities unfurl.

TheABC · 06/06/2023 23:48

@MMBaranova I am so sorry and I hope you hear from your relatives soon.

I've donated to United24. I wish there was something more I can do to stop Russia.

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 07/06/2023 00:13

I donated to United 24 this morning, choosing defence rather than the more peaceable options. It seemed like the only help I could offer from the U.K.

The blowing of the dam made me feel so fucking angry and impotent, I'm sure lots of people felt the same and Ukraine will be having a big influx of charitable donations.

MissConductUS · 07/06/2023 00:20

My hope is that in response to this barbarity, the US will start supplying long-range missiles to the Ukrainians. Those can be put to use much faster than multirole combat aircraft, which we should also be supplying.

dibly · 07/06/2023 00:23

Checking in while watching the news, not happy with the insinuation that Ukraine might have sabotaged the dam themselves

blueshoes · 07/06/2023 00:55

MissConductUS · 07/06/2023 00:20

My hope is that in response to this barbarity, the US will start supplying long-range missiles to the Ukrainians. Those can be put to use much faster than multirole combat aircraft, which we should also be supplying.

ATACAMs? Something to match Storm Shadows.

🙏

MissConductUS · 07/06/2023 01:35

blueshoes · 07/06/2023 00:55

ATACAMs? Something to match Storm Shadows.

🙏

ATACAMS and the JASSM

AGM-158 JASSM - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-158_JASSM

blueshoes · 07/06/2023 01:44

JASSM - stealthy with a long range. Could be handy. Wishing it gets delivered to Ukraine eventually.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 07/06/2023 07:11

Good morning ... wondering what the morning will bring in the flooded areas. I havent heard anything of when the max flood height will be reached. Thinking of the people on the rooves overnight.

Igotjelly · 07/06/2023 07:16

Politico reporting that the EU are nearing a deal on their 11th package of sanctions, the purpose of which is to close loopholes that are allowing Russia to circumvent existing sanctions. This includes measures to pressure countries that are outside of the bloc. This has caused some pushback from some EU countries, including Germany, which has led to the package being watered down to a degree. Greece and Hungary also currently blocking the package, more info New sanctions against Russia stuck in limbo over Greek-Hungarian protest – POLITICO

New sanctions against Russia stuck in limbo over Greek-Hungarian protest 

Odd couple is holding back deal on new sanctions against Russia.

https://www.politico.eu/article/new-sanctions-against-russia-stuck-limbo-greece-hungary-protest-ukraine-war/?utm_source=POLITICO.EU&utm_campaign=d977ebf580-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2023_06_07_05_03&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_10959edeb5-d977ebf580-%5BLIST_EMAIL_ID%5D

jgw1 · 07/06/2023 07:16

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 07/06/2023 07:11

Good morning ... wondering what the morning will bring in the flooded areas. I havent heard anything of when the max flood height will be reached. Thinking of the people on the rooves overnight.

There seemed to be some informed suggestion yesterday that the peak would be sometime in the early hours this morning. Fingers crossed.

Natsku · 07/06/2023 07:50

Thanks for the new thread. Worried about those people stuck on roofs, I hope they are ok.

Surplus2requirements · 07/06/2023 08:06

jgw1 · 07/06/2023 07:16

There seemed to be some informed suggestion yesterday that the peak would be sometime in the early hours this morning. Fingers crossed.

The Ukrainian energy company said they expect the peak this morning and for it to take 4 or 5 days before it begins to recede

prettybird · 07/06/2023 08:34

We must have cross-posted @MMBaranova Flowers

I hope you hear from your relatives soon and that they're ok.

Usou · 07/06/2023 08:42

Me too!

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 07/06/2023 09:14

Surplus2requirements · 07/06/2023 08:06

The Ukrainian energy company said they expect the peak this morning and for it to take 4 or 5 days before it begins to recede

Crap. The people who aren't washed away aren't going to be able to survive 4 - 5 days without clean water and food, specially v young or old or disabled people.

God Damn you Russia.

Famzonhol · 07/06/2023 09:28

.

CrunchyCarrot · 07/06/2023 09:38

I've not been on these threads since early on but yesterday's dam destruction has just made me so sad and upset, I can't even imagine how bad things are there. I read all the animals at the zoo nearby were drowned. That's just animals in a zoo, never mind all those living wild or domesticated, and of course the tragedy of humans drowned or made homeless. Disease will be next. Environmental impace. It's all so pointless and tragic.

Putin won't even accept responsibility.

CrunchyCarrot · 07/06/2023 09:39

*impact

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 07/06/2023 09:50

CrunchyCarrot · 07/06/2023 09:38

I've not been on these threads since early on but yesterday's dam destruction has just made me so sad and upset, I can't even imagine how bad things are there. I read all the animals at the zoo nearby were drowned. That's just animals in a zoo, never mind all those living wild or domesticated, and of course the tragedy of humans drowned or made homeless. Disease will be next. Environmental impace. It's all so pointless and tragic.

Putin won't even accept responsibility.

The other thing us that the inhibitions are falling. A mass destruction event is a threshold and once that’s crossed that it’s impossible to say where it will all end.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 07/06/2023 09:54

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-june-6-2023

Note: The data cutoff for this product was 3pm ET on June 6. ISW will cover subsequent reports in the June 7 Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment.

Key Takeaways

  • Damage to the Kakhovka Hydroelectric Power Plant (KHPP) dam in the early hours of June 6 caused massive flooding of the Dnipro River delta, river wetlands, estuaries, and shoreline settlements in Kherson Oblast.
  • The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) and Ukrainian officials stated that the drop in the water level at the Kakhovka Reservoir should not affect the safety of the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant (ZNPP).
  • Ukrainian officials stated that Russian forces intentionally destroyed the KHPP dam and suggested that the Russian military did not prepare for subsequent flooding.
  • Russian officials accused Ukrainian forces of destroying the KHPP dam and used the allegations to bolster ongoing efforts to portray Ukrainian assaults elsewhere in Ukraine as immediate failures.
  • ISW has not yet observed clear evidence of what transpired at the KHPP on June 6 and is therefore unable to offer an independent assessment of responsibility at the time of this publication.
  • Russian forces conducted another large-scale missile strike across Ukraine on the night of June 5-6.
  • Russian sources claimed that the pro-Ukrainian all-Russian Russian Volunteer Corps (RDK) and the Freedom of Russian Legion (LSR) are gone from a border settlement in Belgorod Oblast as of June 6.
  • Wagner Group financier Yevgeny Prigozhin continued to directly threaten the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) and the Russian military command if they do not fulfill his demands for a larger independent army and political influence in Russia.
  • Ukrainian officials offered assurances that the damage to the dam and subsequent flooding will not impede Ukrainian counteroffensive preparations.
  • Russian forces conducted limited ground attacks along the Svatove-Kreminna line.
  • Russian sources claimed that Ukrainian forces continued ground attacks north and southwest of Bakhmut, and Russian forces continued limited offensive operations along the Avdiivka-Donetsk line.
  • Ukrainian forces continued ground attacks in southwestern Donetsk and in eastern Zaporizhia oblasts.
  • Wagner Group financier Yevgeny Prigozhin claimed that the Russian 72nd Separate Motorized Rifle Brigade is part of the irregular 6th Division.
  • Russian officials and occupation authorities continue efforts to use infrastructure projects to integrate occupied territories into Russia. [that'd be in the unflooded areas then, right?]

Extra snippets:

Russian and Ukrainian sources began reporting loud noises resembling explosions emanating from the KHPP (across the Dnipro River in the Nova Kakhovka area about 55km northeast of Kherson City) between 0200 and 0230 local time on June 6, followed by reports of rushing water and an overall increase in the water level of the Dnipro.

... water is draining from the Kakhovka Reservoir at a rate of 15-20cm an hour, which Syrota stated means that the reservoir will be entirely dry in the next four days.

....the rate of water discharge from the dam may lead to flooding as far downstream as Kizomys, about 120km southwest from the KHPP.

The Ukrainian Resistance Center amplified reporting from the Crimean-based Ukrainian Atesh partisan movement alleging that the Russian 1st Battalion of the 205th Motorized Rifle Brigade (49thCombined Arms Army, Southern Military District) was responsible for the detonation at the KHPP dam.

White House spokesperson John Kirby noted that the US still cannot say conclusively what caused the destruction of the dam but is assessing reports that “the blast was caused by Russia.”[26] NBC additionally reported that the US has intelligence indicating Russia’s responsibility for the dam’s destruction but is currently working to declassify relevant information

Available footage from June 6, corroborated by claims made by Russian milbloggers, suggests that the flooding washed away Ukrainian positions near the Dnipro shoreline and forced Ukrainian formations to evacuate while under Russian artillery fire.

There is also the possibility, of course, that pre-existing structural damage to the dam eventually caused breakage and flooding, as some sources have additionally suggested, although reports of noises like explosions are not necessarily consistent with this notion.

[37] ISW cannot offer a definitive assessment of responsibility for the June 6 incident at this time but finds that the balance of evidence, reasoning, and rhetoric suggests that the Russians deliberately damaged the dam.

Ukraine Invasion: Part 41
Surplus2requirements · 07/06/2023 10:01

The MoD intelligence update today says the dam is likely to deteriorate over the coming days and confirms the water level was at a record high.

I sincerely hope they're wrong. Losing the entire dam and the whole 18 cubic km of water behind it doesn't bear thinking about.

It doesn't say anything about who is responsible (as if we don't know) which is disappointing.

I feel so despairing that such obvious Kremlin lies are enough to cast doubt on the guilt of their crimes.

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