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Ukraine Invasion: Part 41

998 replies

MagicFox · 06/06/2023 13:13

Welcome to thread 41 with new guidance thrashed out with regular posters to keep us on track :-) Hope you all approve!

  1. The agreed purpose of the thread is for the sharing of information and commentary on current events
  1. If you post a link please tell us where it leads/give a precis of the content
  1. Discussion and debate is welcome, but please keep it respectful
OP posts:
Thread gallery
161
L1ttledrummergirl · 16/06/2023 19:02

Something a bit random. We popped into one of the "lounge" group pub today and I ordered one of these Kyiv mules. I like that I donated in a roundabout way.

Ukraine Invasion: Part 41
MagicFox · 16/06/2023 19:06

That can take prime place on the drunks list at the fantasy church hall future victory meet up we're hoping will happen!

OP posts:
MagicFox · 16/06/2023 19:07

Drinks list (though no doubt that's a Freudian celebratory slip)

OP posts:
MagicFox · 16/06/2023 19:09

Sorry if I've missed this but have we discussed the the Russian receipt of Chinese-manufactured equipment? China moving closer and closer to providing overt military aid?

OP posts:
ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 16/06/2023 20:42

We have not, and I don't know what to say. Too dispiriting.

StormShadow · 16/06/2023 20:54

L1ttledrummergirl · 16/06/2023 19:02

Something a bit random. We popped into one of the "lounge" group pub today and I ordered one of these Kyiv mules. I like that I donated in a roundabout way.

Sounds delicious! In more ways than one.

blueshoes · 16/06/2023 20:58

L1ttledrummergirl · 16/06/2023 19:02

Something a bit random. We popped into one of the "lounge" group pub today and I ordered one of these Kyiv mules. I like that I donated in a roundabout way.

Always makes me happy to see businesses supporting Ukraine when out and about. Supporting Ukraine is almost like my secret life so great that you got a chance to openly combine your 2 favourite activities!

I had to google what is a "Lounge" group pub. It sounded a bit like swinging but I am since reassured Grin

L1ttledrummergirl · 16/06/2023 21:40

They are pretty good. When we go out with the extended family we have a few different food allergies in the group and the lounge caters for everyone. The cocktails are good as well. The Kyiv mule was delicious.

blueshoes · 17/06/2023 00:17

Littledrummergirl, sounds great. Will give my local one a go.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 17/06/2023 09:20

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-june-16-2023

Key Takeaways

  • Ukrainian forces continued counteroffensive actions on at least three sectors of the front on June 16 and reportedly made gains.
  • Russian forces targeted Kyiv and Kryvyi Rih with cruise missiles and kamikaze drones on June 15-16.
  • The heads of state of seven African countries met with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky on June 16 in Kyiv as part of a joint peace mission.
  • The Kremlin claimed Russia has begun transferring tactical nuclear warheads (under Russian control) to Belarus, in line with previously announced plans.
  • Select current and former Russian municipal officials signed an open letter calling on Russian forces to return to “universally” recognized Russian borders due to the crisis caused by the destruction of the Kakhovka Hydroelectric Power Plant (KHPP) dam.
  • Russian forces conducted limited ground attacks along the Svatove-Kreminna line.
  • Russian and Ukrainian forces conducted ground attacks near Bakhmut and along the Avdiivka-Donetsk City line.
  • Ukrainian forces continued ground attacks in the Vuhledar area.
  • Ukrainian forces continued counteroffensive operations near the administrative border of Donetsk and Zaporizhia oblasts and reportedly made gains in this area.
  • The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) is attempting to monetarily incentivize the destruction of Ukrainian military equipment, likely to bolster ongoing recruitment efforts.
  • Russian and occupation authorities are attempting to strengthen Russian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) between Russia and occupied Ukraine.

Expanded: Select current and former Russian municipal officials signed an open letter calling on the Russian forces to return to the “universally” recognized Russian borders due to the crisis caused by the destruction of the Kakhovka Hydroelectric Power Plant (KHPP) dam. Municipal officials from Moscow and St. Petersburg as well as Moscow and Leningrad oblasts signed the document, which argued that the destruction of the KHPP dam will affect the ecosystem of the planet, health issues, and the economy for many decades.[14] The letter stated that Putin’s actions since February 24, 2022 have caused unspecified catastrophic events but did not cite continued Russian military operations in Ukraine as a reason for the withdrawal of Russian forces.[15] Non-Kremlin aligned Russian officials may be using public concern about the environmental and humanitarian situation associated with the destruction of the KHPP dam to voice opposition to the war in Ukraine without directly criticizing the war effort itself. The Kremlin has widely set the conditions for crackdowns against anti-war dissent. Russians who hold anti-war sentiments may use the destruction of the KHPP to voice their opposition to the war in a very limited fashion.[16]

[this isn't nothing. There's some bravery in saying this and obviously some real concern for environmental and economic issues]

Institute for the Study of War

Ukrainian forces continued counteroffensive actions on at least three sectors of the front on June 16 and reportedly made gains. The Ukrainian General Staff stated that the Ukrainian forces conducted successful counteroffensive operations southwest of

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-june-16-2023

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 17/06/2023 09:36

Kyiv Independent Telegram

⚡️Stoltenberg: NATO invite (https://kyivindependent.com/stoltenberg-ukraines-nato-invite-will-not-be-discussed-at-vilnius-summit/) for Ukraine not to be discussed at Vilnius summit.
The members will instead consider ways of bringing Ukraine closer to the Alliance, he said at a press conference after the NATO ministerial meeting in Brussels.

⚡️Polish parliament passes (https://kyivindependent.com/polish-parliament-supports-ukraines-entry-into-nato/) bill backing Ukraine's entry into NATO.

⚡️US lawmakers submit (https://kyivindependent.com/us-lawmakers-submit-bill-to-purchase-atacms-for-ukraine/) bill to purchase ATACMS for Ukraine.
A new defense budget bill submitted to U.S. Congress allocates $80 million for the purchase of Army Tactical Missile System (ATACMS) for Ukraine, Policy Advisor to Helsinki Commission Paul Massaro said on June 16.

⚡️Russian media (https://kyivindependent.com/iaea-chief-to-visit-russia-due-to-zaporizhzhia-nuclear-plant-situation/): IAEA chief Rafael Grossi to visit Moscow over Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant situation, the news agency Interfax said citing Russian state-owned nuclear company Rosatom.

⚡️Defense Ministry (https://kyivindependent.com/defense-ministry-ukraine-advances-2-kilometers-in-multiple-directions/): Ukraine advances 2 kilometers in multiple directions.
Maliar added that Ukrainian forces are conducting both offensive and defensive operations, and achieving partial success despite Russian artillery and air superiority.

⚡️ UK Defense Ministry: Russia likely gained (https://kyivindependent.com/uk-defense-ministry-russia-likely-gained-temporary-advantage-in-ukraines-south-thanks-to-attack-helicopters/) ‘temporary advantage’ in Ukraine’s south with attack helicopters.

⚡️Ambassador: Russia's nuclear threat in Belarus should be taken (https://kyivindependent.com/ambassador-russias-threat/) 'very seriously' by West.

⚡️Sweden pledges (https://kyivindependent.com/sweden-promises/) $23.5 million aid package, confirms fighter jet training for Ukraine.

⚡️Syrskyi makes new visit (https://kyivindependent.com/military-russia-concentrates-forces-at-bakhmut/) to military near Bakhmut.
General Oleksandr Syrskyi, commander of the Ukrainian Ground Forces, made a new visit to Ukrainian military units near the city of Bakhmut in Donetsk Oblast."The enemy continues to transfer his military units to Bakhmut, concentrating large forces in this direction" the general said.

⚡️Health Minister: Pollution (https://kyivindependent.com/health-minister-pollution-level-in-dnipro-river-increases-28-times/) level in Dnipro River rises dramatically after dam destruction.
Health Minister Viktor Liashko told BBC News on June 15 that the water in the Dnipro River is "tens of thousands of times" more polluted due to the Kakhovka dam breach

⚡️US to provide (https://kyivindependent.com/us-to-provide/) $205 million in humanitarian aid to Ukraine.
"U.S. humanitarian assistance provides the people of Ukraine with critical support, including food, safe drinking water, protection services, education, livelihoods, legal assistance, accessible shelter, health care, and more through our international and non-governmental partners in the region," the press statement said.

⚡️Germany, Belgium announce (https://kyivindependent.com/germany-belgium-promise-further-military-aid-to-ukraine-after-ramstein-summit/) new military aid to Ukraine at Ramstein summit. Belgium approved its 15th aid package worth 11 million euros ($12 million), including M113 Armored Personnel Carriers.
⚡️Minister: Germany to provide (https://kyivindependent.com/pistorius-germany-to-provide-ukraine-with-64-guided-missiles-for-patriot/) Ukraine with 64 missiles for Patriot systems.

⚡️Ukraine to work with Czechia, Slovakia on purchase of CV90 armored vehicles.

⚡️Putin attacks (https://kyivindependent.com/putin-attacks-zelensky-says-he-is-not-jewish/) Zelensky, says he is ‘not Jewish’.
Russian dictator Vladimir Putin proclaimed that "according to his Jewish friends," Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky is "not Jewish" and a "shame to the Jewish people," Russian media reported on June 16. [what a ridiculous pissartist he is]

⚡️Jewish Confederation of Ukraine responds (https://kyivindependent.com/jewish-confederation-of-ukraine-responds-to-putins-comment-that-zelensky-isnt-jewish/) to Putin's comment that Zelensky 'isn't Jewish'.
"Zelensky is a hero not only of the Jewish people, but also of the entire political Ukrainian nation, which, of course, includes Jews," the Jewish Confederation of Ukraine said in a statement.

⚡️Update: 23 injured (https://kyivindependent.com/update-23-injured-in-russian-attack-against-kherson-oblast/) in Russian attacks on Kherson Oblast.

⚡️Drivers go on strike (https://kyivindependent.com/drivers-go-on-strike-in-russian-occupied-mariu/) in Russian-occupied Mariupol.

Drivers of the municipal water supply company in Mariupol announced a strike on June 16 after not being paid for two months of labor, according to the Ukrainian military's National Resistance Center.
The center reported that there is a shortage of male workers in the Russian-occupied areas of Ukraine, particularly "miners, metallurgists, engineers, builders, locksmiths, drivers, doctors and other specialties."

⚡️German minister: NATO may agree (https://kyivindependent.com/german-defense-minister-nato-may-agree-to-simplify-ukraines-path-to-alliance/) to simplify Ukraine’s path to alliance.
NATO allies may be ready to remove some hurdles on Ukraine’s path to the military alliance, German Defense Minister Boris Pistorius said on June 16, as cited by the Guardian.

⚡️Estonia to draft (https://kyivindependent.com/estonia-is-first-eu-member-working-on-using-frozen-assets-to-compensate-war-damages-to-ukraine/) law to use Russian assets for Ukraine's reconstruction.

⚡️Kuleba: Russian June 16 attack on Kyiv Oblast conveying message to African delegation (https://kyivindependent.com/kuleba-russian-june-16-attack-on-kyiv-oblast-conveying-message-to-african-delegation/).
⚡️South African president (https://kyivindependent.com/south-africas-president-missiles-do-not-work-well-to-establish-peace/): 'Missiles do not work well to establish peace’.
⚡️South African president (https://kyivindependent.com/south-africas-president-presents-10-step-peace-plan-in-kyiv/) presents 10-step peace plan in Kyiv.

Belarus Weekly: Minsk to trigger martial law in case of cross-border incursions (https://kyivindependent.com/belarus-weekly-government-proposes-bill-allowing-martial-law-in-case-of-cross-border-incursions/)
A draft bill published by Belarus’ Council of Ministers on June 8 proposed expanding the reasons for which martial law could be introduced in Belarus.

⚡️Government to provide (https://kyivindependent.com/government-to-provide-victims-of-kakhovka-disaster-with-136-per-person/) victims of Kakhovka disaster with $136 per person.

⚡️Maxar Technologies publishes (https://kyivindependent.com/new-satellite-images-show-flooding-from-kakhovka-dam-destruction/) updated satellite imagery of Kakhovka dam destruction.

A lot of hardware again and one helicopter.

Ukraine Invasion: Part 41
Ukraine Invasion: Part 41
ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 17/06/2023 09:56

UNITED24 Media Telegram

🇸🇪Sweden, as part of the 12th package of military aid to Ukraine, will train Ukrainian pilots on Jas 39 Gripen fighters, — the government.

🇧🇪 Belgium has approved the 15th military aid package for Ukraine, which will include tracked armored personnel carriers of the M113 type — their number is not specified

❗️After the dam of the Kakhovka HPP, Russia wants to blow up the Zaporizhzhia NPP, — President Zelenskyy in an interview with NBC News.

At a press conference after talks with a delegation of African Union leaders, Zelenskyy said that peace talks with Russia are possible only after the complete withdrawal of Russian troops from the occupied territories
The water level in the Kherson region is currently 1.09 m, about 30 settlements remain flooded.

Putin spoke at the "St. Petersburg Economic Forum" plenary session. What he said:
▫️"Russia has more nuclear weapons than NATO countries. They want us to reduce them — f*k them."
▫️"Everyone is waiting for us to start pushing buttons, but we will not do it, there are no military successes of Kyiv."
▫️Putin assures that he can "destroy any building in the center of Kyiv" even without nuclear weapons, but he does not do this "for several reasons"; which he declined to name.
▫️Also, the Russian dictator believes that he destroyed 5 "Patriot" complexes in Kyiv.
▫️He stated that "his Jewish friends" call Zelenskyy "the shame of the Jewish people."
▫️Putin fantasized about involving NATO in the conflict: he threatened to strike air bases outside Ukraine if the F-16 fighters used in the war were based there.
▫️The President of the Russian Federation announced that the first Russian tactical nuclear charges are already on the territory of Belarus, and the final transfer will be completed by the end of the year.

Ukraine has agreed with the Czech Republic and Slovakia on the purchase and repair of BMP — details will be given later, Defense Minister Reznikov said

Who is Maria Lvova-Belova?

Putin criticized the "peace initiatives" of US presidential candidate Donald Trump.
Trump said that as president, he would not allow a Russian-Ukrainian war, and the United States "would have no problems" with Russia, Ukraine, and China.

The Ukrainian postage stamp "Russian warship, go..." was recognized as the best in the world for 2022 according to the prestigious World Post & Parcel Awards

The reality of the frontline😔 Ukrainian soldier after a heavy fight.

Russian BMP "Yulia-Nadezhda" before and after it was captured and repaired by Ukrainian concern “Ukroboronprom”.

This is how Kakhovka Reservoir looks like now.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 17/06/2023 10:11

Live: Ukraine Telegram

In Crimea, Kerch, Sevastopol, Alushta, and Yevpatoria have no electricity.
[reason unknown]

The Swedish government has agreed to the participation of up to 60 military personnel of the Armed Forces in the establishment of logistics and maintenance centers for military equipment near Ukraine, for example, in Poland, Defense Minister Paul Johnson said.
The centers will repair and maintain military equipment that Sweden has donated to Ukraine: CV-90 combat vehicles, Leopard tanks, Archer and Robot 70 artillery systems

Reznikov believes that Ukrainian pilots will be able to master the F-16 in 4 months, not the standard six.
At the same time, he said, Ukraine will be able to receive the aircraft no earlier than 2024, as the training course for engineers and technicians is longer.
The Defense Minister also noted that the airfields for these aircraft will be inside Ukraine

Russian troops shelled Kherson with artillery. They hit residential areas - a multi-storey building, administrative buildings of medical and educational institutions, transport and power lines were damaged. According to the prosecutor's office, six people were wounded.

🇿🇦 South African President Cyril Ramaphosa said he expects Putin to attend the BRICS summit in August, despite the country's commitment to arrest him and extradite him to the International Criminal Court.
According to the South African leader, they "expect Putin to come" and will discuss his visit to the BRICS summit during a bilateral meeting in Moscow on Saturday.

These are two plaques of honor on the wall of a school in a village in Russia. And these two plaques are the visual embodiment of continuous state cannibalism in Russia.
On the left is a plaque in memory of Semyon Tutrinov. He was killed in Chechnya in 2002. At the age of 21. The year before, Semyon Tutrinov had a son, Alexander. And on the right is a plaque in memory of Alexander Tutrinov. He was killed in Ukraine a year ago. At the age of the same 21. Alexander had no children.

Mariupol

Ukraine Invasion: Part 41
Ukraine Invasion: Part 41
Ukraine Invasion: Part 41
Ukraine Invasion: Part 41
Ukraine Invasion: Part 41
DesdamonasHandkerchief · 17/06/2023 10:23

Thanks for the round ups Ducks.
Those photos of Mariupol really bring home the total devastation Russia has wrought on Ukraine.

notimagain · 17/06/2023 10:54

The reality of the frontline😔 Ukrainian soldier after a heavy fight.

Unlike images of Air or Naval warfare I think there's something almost timeless about pictures like that..

Look back through the archives from WW1, though 2, through to today and conflicts various with multiple armies (Brit, US, Israeli) and if you aren't a "kit" expert you'd be hard pushed to tell name the era of many images.......infantry warfare always seems to end up with the survivors covered in crap and looking cream crackered.

Nasty stuff.

MissConductUS · 17/06/2023 11:32

Look back through the archives from WW1, though 2, through to today and conflicts various with multiple armies (Brit, US, Israeli) and if you aren't a "kit" expert you'd be hard pushed to tell name the era of many images.......infantry warfare always seems to end up with the survivors covered in crap and looking cream crackered.

Quite true. Infantrymen are often referred to as grunts or mud monkeys. I did have to google "cream crackered" though. 😀

On the same topic, the WSJ has a piece today on the Russian POWs Ukraine has captured recently, their condition and what they're saying about the state of the conflict.

Tattered and Bandaged, Russian POWs Describe Ukraine’s Offensive - Russian soldiers taken captive talk of poor morale and brutal commanders

June 17, 2023 12:01 am ET

KRAMATORSK, Ukraine—The barefoot Russian prisoner of war limped across a pitted asphalt yard, watched by Ukrainian military police.

His boots had been covered in the blood of fallen comrades. He had removed and then lost them in the confusion of being transferred to this makeshift detention center in eastern Ukraine.

Around 20 bedraggled Russian infantrymen huddled in a garage, reeking of days in fetid trenches and the backs of Ukrainian vans, while guards prepared to transfer them to a prison.

The first battles in Ukraine’s big offensive, aimed at retaking land in the country’s south and east occupied by Russia, are yielding a steady flow of Russian prisoners. Many will likely be exchanged, eventually, for Ukrainian soldiers taken prisoner by Russian forces.

Ukraine’s big offensive is yielding a steady flow of Russian prisoners.
The men passing through Kramatorsk had surrendered after brutal firefights when Ukrainian forces attacked Russia’s first line of defenses near the town of Velyka Novosilka in the eastern Donetsk region. Ukrainian troops have made small but steady gains in the area.

The Russian forward positions are meant to slow down the Ukrainians, allowing Russian commanders to move reserves to where they think Kyiv’s forces will try to break through the more formidable Russian fortifications that lie beyond.

Ukrainian forces have yet to reach the main Russian defensive line. Early assaults on the forward positions have brought significant casualties, say soldiers involved in the offensive.

But the Russian infantry tasked with holding up the initial attacks in trenches and tree lines are taking heavier losses, according to men fighting on both sides.

Many are facing Ukrainian brigades armed with more potent Western weaponry than at any time since Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered the full-scale invasion of Ukraine early last year.

Several prisoners who spoke to The Wall Street Journal described morale on the Russian side as poor. The POWs quoted in this article described their voluntary surrender, which is a crime in Russia. The Journal verified their identities and has withheld their surnames.

Anatoly, the shoeless rifleman, said the men in his unit barely spoke with one another at all as they waited for the Ukrainian advance. “Everyone was silent, thinking their own thoughts, wondering which side they will come from,” he said. “We were really scared. Nobody wants to die. We were hoping for the counteroffensive not to happen.”

A contract soldier from the Altai Mountains in southern Siberia, Anatoly said he was a construction worker back home. He said he joined the army to fight in Ukraine because friends and acquaintances did. “Propaganda said Ukraine was bad, people here are Nazis, and so on. We heard that everywhere.” He said he was a driver, fixing vehicles and ferrying drone operators, but a month ago he was ordered to a front-line position in a tree line west of Velyka Novosilka.

Last week, he said, “all was quiet for two days. But then a strong assault started. Everything became chaotic, munitions were flying, everyone started running,” Anatoly said. “Between shelling and mortar fire, I was trying to look into the fields, to find the enemy. But I couldn’t see anyone.”

Within minutes, he said, Ukrainians stormed the tree line and threw hand grenades into his trench. The five other men beside him were killed, including his good friend Georgy, he said. “I got out of the trench and started screaming, ‘I give up, I give up!,’” Anatoly said.

The prisoners at Kramatorsk were a mix of professionals, conscripts and mercenaries. Several were from ethnic minorities in Siberia, others from St. Petersburg or Vladivostok. Many wore tattered combat fatigues. A number were bandaged.

Anton, a fighter with Russian paramilitary group Storm Z, had suffered shrapnel wounds to his head and limbs in March. The head wound was particularly bad, leaving him with a stammer. A doctor said he was unfit to continue fighting in Ukraine, but his commander ordered him and other wounded men back to the front, he said.

Storm Z fighters, usually convicts recruited from Russian prisons, weren’t allowed to retreat, on penalty of being shot by their own zagradotryad, or blocking troops, Anton said.

A former soldier in jail for drug dealing, Anton had signed up for six months’ combat in Ukraine and the promise of a pardon. But commanders treated the men’s lives as disposable, he said. “What I’m starting to realize is that in this war, we’re not on the side of right,” he said.

Ordered to a front-line position near Velyka Novosilka last week, Anton said he and others came under fire before they got there. A bullet hit him in the leg and another in the arm while he was bandaging himself, he said.

He and the other men, mostly wounded, shouted toward the unseen Ukrainian troops that they wanted to surrender: “If we go back, they’ll shoot us!” Then they sat and waited for the Ukrainians to arrive, he said.

“Morale is quite low,” said Dmitry, a conscript from Russia’s far east. “We were constantly in position with no rotation. It turned out that, according to the paperwork, we had been rotated out a month ago, but it didn’t happen,” he said.

Dmitry said he had been deployed to the Donetsk front after only minimal training, including some shooting practice in a field and basic first aid. His unit, defending the settlement of Staromaiorske south of Velyka Novosilka, lacked crews for some of its tanks and armored vehicles, he said.

His voice quavered as he described coming under heavy fire. “They opened up on us with tanks, mortars, artillery,” he said. After that, U.S.-made MaxxPro armored vehicles fired on their tree line and disgorged infantry.

“I didn’t know what to do, I was in fear, I was panicking,” Dmitry said. He and a comrade came out of their trench with hands raised. As their captors laid them on the ground and bound their hands, another Russian jumped out of the trench and threw grenades, wounding some Ukrainians before being killed.

Dmitry said he hoped he wouldn’t be sent back to Russia in a prisoner swap, for fear of how the FSB security service would treat him. “The way our structures in Russia are working now, if I have the opportunity, I’ll refuse to be exchanged,” he said.

The POWs were loaded into vans for transfer further away from the front lines.

Write to Marcus Walker at [email protected]

Tattered and Bandaged, Russian POWs Describe Ukraine’s Offensive

The first battles in Ukraine’s big offensive, aimed at retaking land in the country’s south and east occupied by Russia, are yielding a steady flow of Russian prisoners.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/tattered-and-bandaged-russian-pows-describe-ukraines-offensive-3ee8c7e3?mod=hp_lead_pos2

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 17/06/2023 11:56

Thanks for cutting and pasting that article MissConduct. I hope it's indicative of the mood of Russian armed forces and that lots of Russian conscripts/volunteers are realising they're 'not on the side of right'.

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 17/06/2023 12:10

The way the world reacted to the Russians destroying the Kakhovka dam, Ukrainians are losing confidence that it'll be any different with a nuclear strike or anything else.

Op-ed highlighting the Ukrainian feeling of isolation and helplessness following this war crime.

https://twitter.com/krides/status/1669999916926500866?s=46&t=eNB9C4pL0g2Opkl4oCmOsQ

The lack of condemnation from the West for the blowing the Kakhovka dam is a huge mistake. We were warned last year it was being mined and that turned out to be true. Now we're warned that the nuclear power plant and an ammonia producing plant are also mined. Putin doesn't need to use his nuclear arsenal to make Ukraine a desolate wasteland he just needs to create plausible deniability whilst Ukraines allies look the other way.

Natsku · 17/06/2023 12:20

L1ttledrummergirl · 16/06/2023 19:02

Something a bit random. We popped into one of the "lounge" group pub today and I ordered one of these Kyiv mules. I like that I donated in a roundabout way.

A nice way to donate I'm sure! (but the cherry bakewell drink sounds amazing, I really want to try that now)

blueshoes · 17/06/2023 13:05

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 17/06/2023 11:56

Thanks for cutting and pasting that article MissConduct. I hope it's indicative of the mood of Russian armed forces and that lots of Russian conscripts/volunteers are realising they're 'not on the side of right'.

I am not supposed to feel sympathy but their ordeal still has not ended:

Dmitry said he hoped he wouldn’t be sent back to Russia in a prisoner swap, for fear of how the FSB security service would treat him. “The way our structures in Russia are working now, if I have the opportunity, I’ll refuse to be exchanged,” he said.

Imagine that your own country will treat you worse than the enemy for 'serving' in the army.

Igotjelly · 17/06/2023 13:41

Just listened to Ukraine the Latest from yesterday. Was struck by Dom saying that a senior NATO official made clear speaking to him recently that “Ukraine is very unlikely to join NATO whilst Putin remains on power” - feels quite explicit.

blueshoes · 17/06/2023 15:41

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 17/06/2023 12:10

The way the world reacted to the Russians destroying the Kakhovka dam, Ukrainians are losing confidence that it'll be any different with a nuclear strike or anything else.

Op-ed highlighting the Ukrainian feeling of isolation and helplessness following this war crime.

https://twitter.com/krides/status/1669999916926500866?s=46&t=eNB9C4pL0g2Opkl4oCmOsQ

The lack of condemnation from the West for the blowing the Kakhovka dam is a huge mistake. We were warned last year it was being mined and that turned out to be true. Now we're warned that the nuclear power plant and an ammonia producing plant are also mined. Putin doesn't need to use his nuclear arsenal to make Ukraine a desolate wasteland he just needs to create plausible deniability whilst Ukraines allies look the other way.

Well said.

The lack of global condemnation will add to the feeling that Ukraine are just sitting ducks for yet another act of eco-terrorism from Russia. Why is the West so muted on this? The consequences of non-action are staring us in the face.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 17/06/2023 22:52

Warning, there is an extremely distressing article on sexual violence on media atm, including the Times.

Tbh the horror from the tiny bits I've run across is beyond words.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 18/06/2023 10:05

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 17/06/2023 22:52

Warning, there is an extremely distressing article on sexual violence on media atm, including the Times.

Tbh the horror from the tiny bits I've run across is beyond words.

I saw it in the Sunday Times and it actually made me cry.
The horror, coupled with less optimism about the war.