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Another fatal dog attack.

234 replies

Ostryga · 19/05/2023 15:58

A 37 year old man has lost his life to a ‘dangerously out of control’ dog and the owner has been arrested. The dog was put down.

How many more people have to lose their lives before something is done about out of control animals?!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-65651152

Breaking News image

Man, 37, dies in Leigh dog attack

A man has been arrested on suspicion of being in charge of a dangerously out of control dog.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-65651152

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
ToWhitToWhoo · 20/05/2023 18:23

Aaron95 · 19/05/2023 16:03

Dogs kill approximately 5 people per year in the UK.

Cars kill approxmately 1,500 people per year in the UK.

How about we start with controlling cars first.

Good point, but we do control cars. There are strict safety rules about the design of cars; and about how and where and how fast people can drive them. No one is allowed to drive unless and until they have received training and passed a test. All cars must be registered. And, because of adding and tightening restrictions, although road deaths are still much too high, they are a lot better than they were 40 or 50 years ago.

Though deaths and severe injuries from dogs are much rarer than from cars, they seem to be increasing recently -perhaps due to 'lockdown dogs' not being looked after properly; perhaps due to the advent of XL bullies,

StarDolphins · 20/05/2023 23:03

Ostryga · 19/05/2023 21:02

A relative of the person that died is on this thread. I’d suggest you a) rtft and b)have some fucking compassion.

Suggest what you like, I have sat d my opinion & that still stands,

IamSlave · 21/05/2023 05:59

@Yuasa

Very well said. 👏

CoffeeYes · 21/05/2023 08:16

@MzHz
Can I ask a question? IS this about a particular dog breed or is this about incompetent/irresponsible owners?

4 fatal dog bites this year and 3 were by American bulldog XL. 1 breed was an American Bulldog/Cane Corso. A 37 year old man was recently mauled to death by an American bulldog XL and 15 dogs of the same breed have been seized. The owners have been arrested. There have also been multiple dog attacks that have left their victims with life changing injuries. Most of these dogs were bully types.

surely there are no Bad Dogs, only poorly trained/managed dogs

Any dog can turn, even behaved ones. However, huge muscular breeds are more likely to kill or leave life changing injuries, most notably the American bulldog (or similar). Most dogs that have killed humans since 2000 have been American Bulldog/Pitbulls/Staffordshire bull terrier (often mixed). There’s been an increase in recent years from these breeds.

I don’t agree with dog licensing though. That wouldn’t achieve anything.

Timeforchangeithink · 21/05/2023 08:56

OutOfMyPocket · 20/05/2023 14:36

With all due respect whoever is doing training is wrong - being a leader and dominance theory has been disproven.

Think what you want but I've never had the need to use force, violence or nose tightening devices to train my dogs. Stop, start treats for walking to heel, longline recall. and lots and lots of daily practice. And yes, they do sleep on my bed because I allow them to. I am the boss because I want to keep them safe.

Bovrilla · 21/05/2023 09:02

There's definitely a nature and nurture element.

I met a rescued bully yesterday. She was only a puppy when rescued, by a dog trainer who recognised she'd go to scummers quickly. Absolutely lovely, sweet girl.

That said, I have her treats. Her heights and body wasn't massively, but her head was twice the width and jaw the same of my 20kg dog. There's no doubt the damage potential there.

Her owner keeps her muzzled on street etc and she's not allowed off lead as she's potentially a banned breed, and she's a thoroughly sensible woman. She takes her on these adult dog private walks to allow her some freedom. The dog was far better mannered than many of the others

But I can see just how easily in the wrong circumstances she could do massive damage. Her jaws were scary big.

AlaskaThunderfuckHiiiiiiiii · 21/05/2023 09:09

It needs licensing, made more expensive with far more responsibility, make it too much like hard work to own a dog and then only the people who can properly take care of them would maybe own them, there are far too many dogs now and mainly owned by idiots who haven’t trained them or know how to control them never mind meeting their needs

CoffeeLover90 · 21/05/2023 10:23

Brefugee · 19/05/2023 16:19

there are so many things that can be done to reduce the risk posed by dogs.

Licensing and chipping for starters. Compulsory - checks to be carried out, no licence, no chip? into the dog shelter for you.

Compulsory 3rd party insurance. Same applies: no insurance? dog gos to "pound" and after a fixed (short) amount of time (that the owner pays for in an ideal world) if they are not collected PTS.

Insurance companies are really shit hot at risk assessment. They will automatically be onto things like: has the owner previously owned dogs. Are they trained? etc etc

This will lead to an industry boom in dog training. Good for the economy!!!

off the top of my head.

I came onto say exactly this. And I'm a huge dog lover. We've had dogs all my life and I will never, ever trust one 100%. Even the gentle, docile dogs will attack if they feel threatened or even if they are in pain. They need training, to be kept under control, they should not be sold or given to just anybody.
I agree with the checks and rules used by most rescues, e.g no other pets, no children, it's best they use caution. I can't get a rescue dog because of these rules but I refuse to line the pockets of breeders when I know 99% don't care about the quality of home the dog goes to.
More consequences for the owners too. We hear the dog is pts but has anyone looked into the owners? Did they encourage its behaviour or neglect it by not training? Are they free to go buy another?

CoffeeLover90 · 21/05/2023 10:31

How about we start with controlling cars first.

This just confirms the points raised regarding licencing and back ground checks.

What do you need to drive a car? A licence and insurance.

You spend hours training to drive a car. You're tested to confirm you are capable of driving.

You have to renew a licence.

If you break the rules, your licence is taken away. You keep breaking the rules, or breaking them injures or kills a person, you go to prison.

We have some control over who drives, do the same with dog ownership. Before 5 a year becomes 5 a week.

Sugarfree23 · 21/05/2023 10:59

@Bovrilla if the dog is so big and scary why doesn't the owner have it put down. Rather than risk the dog turning on her in her own house.

Bovrilla · 21/05/2023 17:07

It's not scary though. She's a big dappy docile lump from what I saw of her yesterday. She's lucky as her owner is a dog trainer.

But I could see from the width of her head and jaws the potential for doing huge damage from a dog with similar features etc.

Runningcrew · 22/05/2023 10:07

Redebs · 19/05/2023 16:33

There are more than that.
And what about all the kids with faces ripped and other parts of their anatomy damaged? As well as the pet dogs ripped up in the street in front of their owners? Or Asian women terrified to go out on the streets because lads set dogs on them? Or families where the man of the house threatens them with his big dog if they step out if line?

“Asian women terrified to go out on the streets because lads set dogs on them”

absolutely awful - where is this happening?

Runningcrew · 22/05/2023 10:16

MrsJBaptiste · 20/05/2023 11:51

And this has finally been said out loud.

The guy on BBC Breakfast this morning said exactly that. It's a certain type of person (man or woman but usually man) who have these dogs as 'pets'

We all picture that person immediately we hear of one of these dog attacks. And these people will never get a licence, insurance, mandatory dog training, etc. Just as they don't have a driving licence or car insurance but continue to drive around like twats.

It’s really not that common for people to drive without insurance/license and even if it is, at least the system goes some way to making it something that most people will not do.

if there was an insurance/licensing scheme the money raised by the majority of dog owners (who as they’re always telling us are mostly responsible) can do some way to hiring wardens and enforcing the law on picking up dog mess. As it is society, has to foot the bill and dogs do not benefit many people other than their owners.

ThisOldThang · 22/05/2023 19:32

https://www.doglistener.co.uk/the-american-xl-bully-dog

"Why Do I Think These Dogs Are Dangerous: I am a Dog Behaviourist and an Expert Witness under the 1991 Dangerous Dogs Act.
I have assessed and in numerous cases defended in court many breeds of dogs. I have never refused to assess or work with any type of dog breed and have worked with dogs for over 50 years handling assessing and working with tens of thousands of them.
Though I have retired now, this breed of dog is one I would totally refuse to work with because of its danger to both humans and other dogs.
I believe they are probably the most dangerous breed ever created and the figures and statistics bear this out. Remember these are a new breed and are particularly new to the UK.
I would like to point out that these bully breeds were also bred for dog fighting and one of the main crosses the American Bulldog which is commonly used. for the sport of Schutzhund.
Schutzhund, currently known competitively as IGP and previously as IPO, is a dog sport that tests a dog’s tracking, obedience, and protection skills. The tracking and protection part is to track and bring a man down.
Dog Attacks and Deaths in the UK: Typically, there are 3 fatalities a year from dog attacks. In 2021 there were four deaths one was a young 10-year-old boy called Jack Lis out of the four deaths two were by American XL Bullies including Jack Lis., and one by an American Bulldog
However, in 2022 there was a massive leap in dog attack fatalities 10 people were killed, 6 of them killed by American XL Bullies and the 7th victim was by an American Bulldog. The American Bulldog is one of the main dogs used in creating the XL Bully.
There have been four deaths already this year. One you may have read about1 a professional dogwalker cal Natasha Johnston., there were 8 dogs implicated in the attack however as I was writing this article the Police believe she was killed by her own dog> an XL Bully, the 2nd death was by an American Bulldog, and the third and XL Bully X Cane Corso and fourth was not unsurprisingly an XL Bully

Conclusion: Think just for just a minute about those facts, where the majority of the death was caused by one breed of dog that is fairly rare in this country. People are buying them as family pets on the glowing approbation of the breeders in America.
This is utter madness. In my role as an expert witness, I had to assess many dogs that were either banned breeds or had attacked or killed somebody. The majority were psychologically and temperamentally sound. I actually felt that the 1991 Dangerous Dogs Act was seriously flawed and still is.
I was intrinsically against BSL (Breed Specific Legislation) as it does not take into consideration that there are two aspects to how a young dog’s personality and temperament are formed. Genetics is just one part of the equation. Socialisation and training especially in the first 16 weeks of a dog’s life are critical and have an enormous impact on the behaviour of that dog.

Having said that I believe what they have done with American XL Bully has created a monster and for once in my life I believe that something must be done against this ultra-aggressive and reactive breed. This actually goes against everything I believe In. The humans who tinker with genetics either for profit, fun, something they like the look of or as a status symbol or attack dog are the real villains of this piece. They have created the proverbial Frankenstein monster. Now |I think some sort of legislation is urgently required."

The American XL Bully Dog | Doglistener

The Dramatic Rise of Attacks by XL Bully Dogs Overview: In recent years, we have witnessed a growing interest in XL bully dogs, a new breed of muscular and powerful canine that has captured the attention of dog enthusiasts around the World. The breed s...

https://www.doglistener.co.uk/the-american-xl-bully-dog

Nonchalent · 23/05/2023 03:22

This is an interesting and concerning read thank you. I have written to my mp tonight on this asking for government intervention and will provide an update if I get one. I’m awake at this time because I’m still in a state of shock and upon reading your post I decided to do something constructive.

BlusteryLake · 03/06/2023 11:31

And already we have the "tragic isolated incident" crap at the start of the article. It's certainly tragic but these are becoming less "isolated" by the day.

SerafinasGoose · 03/06/2023 12:09

BlusteryLake · 03/06/2023 11:31

And already we have the "tragic isolated incident" crap at the start of the article. It's certainly tragic but these are becoming less "isolated" by the day.

It's completely disingenuous.

These attacks are so obviously not isolated. They're increasing in frequency and it's a problem that needs dealing with urgently.

Chasingadvice · 03/06/2023 12:27

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Chasingadvice · 03/06/2023 12:30

@MzHz "I'm extremely strong" - I'm sure you are dear.

Florenz · 03/06/2023 13:07

Just ban all dogs, then there will be much fewer dog attacks. People can get cats instead. They hardly ever kill people.

BlusteryLake · 03/06/2023 13:10

Florenz · 03/06/2023 13:07

Just ban all dogs, then there will be much fewer dog attacks. People can get cats instead. They hardly ever kill people.

But you'll get folks along shortly who will be keen to point out just how many fatal cat attacks there are every year.....

SaturdayGiraffe · 03/06/2023 13:20

But what about the fatal duck attacks?

BlusteryLake · 03/06/2023 13:33

SaturdayGiraffe · 03/06/2023 13:20

But what about the fatal duck attacks?

Indeed. And a Guinea pig has probably also killed someone once. All good clutter when it comes to ignoring the obvious I imagine.

Kpo58 · 03/06/2023 13:55

SaturdayGiraffe · 03/06/2023 13:20

But what about the fatal duck attacks?

Probably only the XXL ducks (geese) need banning).

I mean we could also ban pigs, cows and horses from the UK as they have killed a fair few people.