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Those of you who think NHS needs more money

141 replies

roarfeckingroarr · 14/05/2023 09:53

I'm genuinely interested in whether you think these jobs - some on double the national average wage - are a good use of public money?

I totally accept the NHS is on its knees in places and that nurses should be paid more. When you see money going on art managers (for £50k pa), surely the answer is massive reform and priorities made, rather than even more money?

It just blows my mind how you have a lack of front line workers and many of those being paid a pittance and yet someone in Southampton will be paid £50k to work on some wild art.

Those of you who think NHS needs more money
OP posts:
pointythings · 15/05/2023 16:58

Emotionalstorm · 15/05/2023 16:54

It doesn't need more money. It needs to be cancelled and rebuilt from scratch. We need a system like the US healthcare system. My parents went there for treatment and it is honestly the best I've ever seen. The hospitals are clean, there is barely any wait time, facilities are state of the art and you deal directly with their equivalent of the consultant. The food is also much nicer at the hospital and you even get a wine list.

If you're rich. Yes.

If you aren't, you basically don't get healthcare in the US at all. I wish I could say I was surprised you don't know that, but sadly I'm not.

They charge you hundreds of dollars for an IV drip that costs pennies. Because they can. My cousin was charged over $1000 for UV treatment for her jaundiced newborn.

If you want to change the healthcare system, you should look at Germany and France, not the US.

bringmelaughter · 15/05/2023 19:43

Emotionalstorm · 15/05/2023 16:54

It doesn't need more money. It needs to be cancelled and rebuilt from scratch. We need a system like the US healthcare system. My parents went there for treatment and it is honestly the best I've ever seen. The hospitals are clean, there is barely any wait time, facilities are state of the art and you deal directly with their equivalent of the consultant. The food is also much nicer at the hospital and you even get a wine list.

The number one contributing factor to bankruptcy in the US is medical bills. Wonderful that the privilege your parents have allowed them the best care you’ve ever seen. This system comes at the cost of those who can’t afford it. Is this really the society you want to live in.

00100001 · 15/05/2023 19:46

Emotionalstorm · 15/05/2023 16:54

It doesn't need more money. It needs to be cancelled and rebuilt from scratch. We need a system like the US healthcare system. My parents went there for treatment and it is honestly the best I've ever seen. The hospitals are clean, there is barely any wait time, facilities are state of the art and you deal directly with their equivalent of the consultant. The food is also much nicer at the hospital and you even get a wine list.

What nonsense.

Look at better systems like Germany.

Fuck the US system and it's inequalities.

5tephi · 16/05/2023 07:14

It is when the same organisation will pay the lead ward nurse £35,000 and the doctors in A&E £40,000. Some doing 12 hour days (3 days a week) plus forced overtime.

A London salary will dwarf a northern England salary. Yes, but people in the same organisation should be paid in relation to each others responsibilities and skill sets.

ApplesandOrangesandPears · 16/05/2023 09:35

Emotionalstorm · 15/05/2023 16:54

It doesn't need more money. It needs to be cancelled and rebuilt from scratch. We need a system like the US healthcare system. My parents went there for treatment and it is honestly the best I've ever seen. The hospitals are clean, there is barely any wait time, facilities are state of the art and you deal directly with their equivalent of the consultant. The food is also much nicer at the hospital and you even get a wine list.

Ah yes the USA where diabetics go without insulin and die, people with severe mental conditions have their medication withdrawn without notice because their insurance decides they no longer cover it and they can't afford to pay for it, and other life saving medications are treated the same way. The USA where people are bankrupted by medical emergencies through no fault of their own and new mothers have to pay a charge to have skin-to-skin with their newborns. What a fantastic system to emulate.....but at least the foods better 🤨

The NHS needs restructuring, there's no doubt about that, it does also need more funding. It has done ever since it first began, it's always been underfunded but healthcare should be a right for everyone - regardless of wealth. If we didn't have the NHS there would be a lot more people unable to work because they couldn't afford healthcare that keeps them well enough to work and would therefore be relying on welfare.

weightymatters73 · 16/05/2023 15:00

I had someone who just left my employment (£30k, and worth that, great administrator) for a £60k role 4 days/30 hours with the NHS as a "Diversity and Inclusion Lead". For him this is a 100% pay rise and a 20% cut in hours....

He has never had a non-administrative role nor any experience with diversity and inclusion. He did not work for me in that capacity. Nor has he ever worked in healthcare. He is white British.

The NHS seems to have WAY too much money to throw at bizarre things.

BungleandGeorge · 16/05/2023 15:23

weightymatters73 · 16/05/2023 15:00

I had someone who just left my employment (£30k, and worth that, great administrator) for a £60k role 4 days/30 hours with the NHS as a "Diversity and Inclusion Lead". For him this is a 100% pay rise and a 20% cut in hours....

He has never had a non-administrative role nor any experience with diversity and inclusion. He did not work for me in that capacity. Nor has he ever worked in healthcare. He is white British.

The NHS seems to have WAY too much money to throw at bizarre things.

You’re saying that someone went from a fairly junior admin role to a band what 8c/8d directors role? I don’t believe it

and to those talking about the US the actual care over there isn’t all that either, and they also have staffing problem despite much better pay

dadofthemonkeys · 16/05/2023 15:46

I work in recruitment for one of the NHS organisations and can tell you right now that, even at these salaries that you call high, it is incredibly hard to recruit right now... Wanna pay lower salaries at the top? I can guarantee that all this will do is attract people without the credentials the NHS needs or deserves.

And yes, we need more money for the front line workers, but what people forget is that the NHS is NOT just frontline workers. We need IT support to maintain network and communications, NetZero managers to make sure we meet environmental targets (did you know healthcare is today accountable for 60% of the government carbon footprint?), We need MarComms professionals to raise awareness of current projects (which actually ensures we have the funds to keep them running)... And sonon and so forth...

So yes... As mentioned before, the NHS needs more money... We are not just the frontline... We are a 360 organisation that touches all areas of employment.

weightymatters73 · 16/05/2023 15:56

BungleandGeorge · 16/05/2023 15:23

You’re saying that someone went from a fairly junior admin role to a band what 8c/8d directors role? I don’t believe it

and to those talking about the US the actual care over there isn’t all that either, and they also have staffing problem despite much better pay

...and I saw the letter! I couldn't believe it myself....I would have been prepared to up his salery to £35k to keep him, but no way can I match £60k!

They left an admin job with reasonable responsibility (and a good reference!). Prior role to us was at a lower salary in something similar to freight forwarding...again admin type role.

100% true I promise, I was shocked!

Notanotherchange254 · 16/05/2023 15:56

BungleandGeorge · 16/05/2023 15:23

You’re saying that someone went from a fairly junior admin role to a band what 8c/8d directors role? I don’t believe it

and to those talking about the US the actual care over there isn’t all that either, and they also have staffing problem despite much better pay

60k is 8b and I call bollocks on an administrator with no management experience or E&D experience has jumped into an 8b post.

weightymatters73 · 16/05/2023 15:58

Notanotherchange254 · 16/05/2023 15:56

60k is 8b and I call bollocks on an administrator with no management experience or E&D experience has jumped into an 8b post.

They worked for me for 3 years, I knew them well, I saw the offer letter.

TellySavalashairbrush · 16/05/2023 16:12

I can't imagine how wonderful it must be to earn £50K . Some posters on here really are living in a bubble if they don't think that is much of a salary.

ArdeteiMasazxu · 16/05/2023 17:19

Do you want management jobs done by
(a) highly skilled, competent and experienced people who add value and make a difference, and understand the impact of what they can achieve
(b) people who would like to be all that, but in a competitive selection procedure never manage to convince a recruitment panel that they could actually get the job done.

Because anyone who is in category (a) and functioning at the level that is needed for these jobs is perfectly capable of getting a job paying £60k plus. For them, a salary of £50k ish is a step down, which they are probably doing out of a genuine belief in the principles of the NHS. There's only so far that you can stretch that good will though. If the choice is between a £40k position where your skills and experience worth £60k are that undervalued and underappreciated, or an equivalent private-sector role with a decent salary, then there comes a point where the lower salary is just too low. You have to have some self-respect. tbh even at £50k there are probably a few people in category (b) - not all NHS managers are brilliant, but the lower the salary, the more (b)s and the fewer (a)s you get.

There are plenty of £40k roles out there, which have a lower level of demand for skills and experience than these roles and are filled by either people whose level of skills and experience are appropriate for those roles or by people who are on their way up to more highly paid jobs once they have developed the necessary skills and experience. If you pay these kinds of NHS roles at £40k ish rather than £50k ish you will naturally attract a lower calibre of personnel, you only get to appoint the people who can't manage to get a job elsewhere, and the whole NHS suffers.

As PP point out the Art role is externally funded - but Art projects aren't a frippery. Someone will have done some serious research and made a valid business case for why a creative and art-filled hospital is better for patients and staff than one that has no art. That business case will have laid out the costs of creating an appropriate budget and management personnel to administer it, and compared that to the cost of the lower morale and longer recovery times which you get in a miserable hospital without such projects, and will have also compared the impact to what you could achieve with one more member of front-line staff instead, and the project was approved.

Of course nurses and doctors should be being paid more too, that is why the NHS needs more money, but an NHS without competent managers doing the administrative side would be even worse.

VioletCharlotte · 16/05/2023 20:03

5tephi · 16/05/2023 07:14

It is when the same organisation will pay the lead ward nurse £35,000 and the doctors in A&E £40,000. Some doing 12 hour days (3 days a week) plus forced overtime.

A London salary will dwarf a northern England salary. Yes, but people in the same organisation should be paid in relation to each others responsibilities and skill sets.

You're conflating two issues here. I completely agree that the nurses and doctors should be paid more. However, as PP have pointed out, the NHS also needs skilled professionals working behind the scenes in IT, HR, Comms, Estates, etc to keep things running behind the scenes and make improvements that will benefit frontline staff and patients. The salaries for these roles need to be in line with the market and what people can expect to be paid elsewhere. Otherwise people won't want to work there and will look for higher paid roles in the private sector.

Papyrophile · 22/11/2023 20:33

It's not a ridiculous wage for a PM.

Actually, it's more than the Prime Minister earns in salary.

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