Those of you who think NHS needs more money

[roarfeckingroarr]

I'm genuinely interested in whether you think these jobs - some on double the national average wage - are a good use of public money?

I totally accept the NHS is on its knees in places and that nurses should be paid more. When you see money going on art managers (for £50k pa), surely the answer is massive reform and priorities made, rather than even more money?

It just blows my mind how you have a lack of front line workers and many of those being paid a pittance and yet someone in Southampton will be paid £50k to work on some wild art.

Hospitals shouldn’t be pissing about with sculptures when operations are being cancelled and waiting lists are insane.
I’ve worked in the NHS for 33 years and this wastefulness has always irritated me.

@KittyAlfred

Operations aren't being cancelled because hospitals have sculptures

1 has absolutely nothing to do with the other

Why didn't I go for it?
Because a) I had no idea the job existed and b) why would I want to? And c) standard managers used to do a lot when I was a junior. They would ensure targets are kept run projects deal with staff issues , infection control etc as part of they daily duties. Now they have to create bullshit middle management jobs for this and waste the money that should be going to those saving lives daily not some fat twerp in a store cupboard come office messing about with figures on spreadsheets
And purllllllease with the '50k isn't much' tinkly laugh and most project managers will be on TRIPLE FIGURE SALARIES
That's the trouble with trying to debate an issue like this on Mumsnet op- most live (or claim to) in the same universe as Rishi et Al

Why do you think operations are being cancelled?

It nieces more money as treatments etc are getting more expensive and complex. But the inefficiency is ridiculous l. So much money is grown away or wasted, by lack of joined up
Thinking. Or forward planning. For example the computer system that cost several
Million and was used for about 6 months.

Sculptures are paid for from our health/arts charity that a lot of staff chip in to from our wages. If we stopped chipping in there'd be no art and no operations. We think a nice environment helps people while they're with us 🤷‍♀️

I dont know what council that would be, round here the LA pay around 18k for customer service roles like that. My OH works in a zone 2 London Borough and is on around 27k for a role in housing.

He would love 33k

I suspect most are just ignorant to what these people actually do, the arbitrary reporting and targets that the government demand have to be carried out somehow. £50k is a decent wage for sure, but what people are saying is that for roles which ask for the same amount of experience and qualifications then no it's not. Few people in decent corporate professions have a desire to work for shit money in crap settings just because omg it's the NHS, they have to at least make attempts to be competitive and appealing (even though invariably still lower paid).

That's the trouble with trying to debate an issue like this on Mumsnet op- most live (or claim to) in the same universe as Rishi et Al

Yes the real world outside of the NHS...

The purpose of a lot of these roles is to improve the working conditions of front line staff, which is often cited as a reason the NHS loses clinical staff at the rate it does.

You want the pay to be competitive with the private sector so you can recruit the best of the best. Public sector project management and transformation work is difficult and highly specialised, the NHS gets quite good value for money from its staff budget at that level.

This job is being posted by the hospital's charity, so this is where the finding for the role will come from. It's separate to the money that comes from tax payers to fund the NHS. Charity money is used for projects that will enhance the wellbeing of staff and patients, thus is made clear when people donate. Staff are needed toi,olé et these projects.

@newjobnewstartihope

I know they can be cancelled for a multitude of reasons.

Lack of theatre space. Lack of theatre staff. Lack of anaesthetists. Huge recruitment issues in anaesthetics. Lack of beds. Covid response. Emergency taking precedence

Theres loads of reasons that having absolutely nothing to do with sculptures

Stopping spending millions on IT kit which is never used and quietly dumped a few years later would probably have more impact on NHS funding than a few arts jobs

Apologies for not spotting that the latter two are charity funded. My mistake.

I've worked for the NHS in a non-critical role on £600 per day as a short term contractor. I've done similar for other semi governmental bodies such as Network Rail. To me, the wording of the net zero roles make them sound like a tick box to meet targets rather then a thought through active role to reduce energy use. I'm probably just cynical after seeing so many of these roles in action delivering bugger all.

Agree with pp that reform and targeted funding are needed. It's just impossible for any political party to question the NHS without a pile on. I think a lot of people consider the NHS as an entity to be beyond criticism, whereas the institution itself is pretty shit and the work on HCPs is what is exceptional

Give me £50k of your money then if isn't a lot...

@roarfeckingroarr

Stopping allowing private contractors like yourself ripping the piss would be a start, dont you think?

It's a job funded by a charity, not the NHS.

Whatever the ins and outs of these particular jobs, there are a lot of managers in the NHS and it would be better off without some of them. There is a whole bunch of middle management jobs that are not necessary imo.

To buy decent future proofed IT infastructure you need to pay people who know what they're doing, that comes at a price. I agree with you absolutely that stuff like this is ridiculous.

@MotherofTerriers exactly! I swear to god that the spec to buy IT kit for the NHS is that it must be difficult to use, glitchy, counter intuitive and quickly obsolete.

🙄 It is however, more than double my full time wage. I’d bite my boss’s hand off if I was offered that.

Is the nhs over managed? Nope

“The Warwick study also showed that, across NHS trusts, having a higher proportion of managers significantly affected performance. Even a small increase in managers, from 2% to 3% of the workforce, led to a 5% improvement in hospital efficiency and a 15% fall in infection rates. Managers may be an easy target, but the complexity of a modern health system requires excellent operational management. If they are drawn from clinical backgrounds or the NHS’s own management training scheme and they understand this public service and its values, all the better. We also need key support services in estates, labs, engineering, IT, catering, transport, HR, supplies finance, and records, to give clinical staff the time to see patients and do their jobs”

@Theeyeballsinthesky

I'm sure I read an article that showed that the nhs has comparatively less managers than the private sector

they are drawn from clinical backgrounds or the NHS’s own management training scheme and they understand this public service and its values, all the better

The problem is when this doesn't happen. And the nhs wastes huge amounts of money on external think tanks and project managers who are then useless

Is it because it’s in the Arts sector that you have an issue? Should people who work in the arts be on the breadline? The post is looking for project management skills etc. so if it was something other than art asking for those skills it would be okay?

And if I had skills in carbon neutral/ sustainability stuff I’d be working in the private sector not the public sector as the wages and career prospects are much better.

Oh and, just so you know, clinical staff on lower bands get (quite rightly) extra payments due to shift rates etc so their take home pay is more than advertised. Hence why there is a struggle to recruit higher bands as you’re actually taking on a lot more responsibility for the same or similar pay.

@ToK1 well if it wasn't me, it would've been someone else. They're competitive roles for obvious reason.