Those of you who think NHS needs more money

[roarfeckingroarr]

I'm genuinely interested in whether you think these jobs - some on double the national average wage - are a good use of public money?

I totally accept the NHS is on its knees in places and that nurses should be paid more. When you see money going on art managers (for £50k pa), surely the answer is massive reform and priorities made, rather than even more money?

It just blows my mind how you have a lack of front line workers and many of those being paid a pittance and yet someone in Southampton will be paid £50k to work on some wild art.

£50k really isn't a lot of money 😕

Agree and don't want the net zero posts either.

@hexsnidgett this is just a snap shot of current jobs. £50k isn't much to many people but it's a hell of a lot more than many frontline staff earn. More to the point, is it necessary? Should the NHS be spending money on these jobs?

I think people sometimes don't realise that for some levels of job NHS salaries just aren't comparable with the private sector and it can be difficult to recruit to these roles. My team has really struggled to recruit critical roles in the past 12 months due to this and it's the reason why my husband left his NHS role.

The bottom two are funded via charity funds. The top two yes I do think they're a good use of funds, of course the NHS should be trying to be as energy conscious as possible

The nhs needs more money.

It also needs some reform.

Both can be true

I think you need to consider what would be the equivalent pay for an art manager outside the NHS. The salary may be the same

You realise that there is also an actual lack of nursing staff right? Not just that they don't get paid enough?

I see your point, but...the first two are pretty much obligatory, I imagine NHS trusts are targeted on their green credentials and have to comply.
The 3rd job is actually funded by a charity, so thr trust can't say "We'll have an extra nurse instead please" as the charity will set the aims.
The fourth job could definitely but cut though.
@hexsnidgett the 50k salary will probably cost the NHS closer to 75k with the total package though.

Funny how this argument never leads to an increase in nurses pay though. 47,000 safety critical vacancies in one profession and yet no one thinks paying them more might help recruit.

Whereas management, IT, corporate posts all must come with high pay and other enticements.

So instead of funding posts to create better energy use and sustainable solutions, they should spend their money on continuing to eat energy ? And they should not be involved in anything that might, say, help to improve health by non medical interventions - just keep them on the pills, eh?

The art one isn't permanent either — I know people who do things like that, and moving from fixed-term to fixed-term contracts they do only accept higher salaries, because they don't know what will come up afterwards.

Whether the NHS needs the role is a different question, but I can understand why it's the payment level it is.

No it’s a cherry picked snapshot in an attempt to prove your point.

Trustworthy bodies such as the kings fund highlight the funding issues and that nhs issues are not solely an issue of making efficiencies: https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/positions/nhs-funding

The global environmental crisis has major impacts on health and is for us all to contribute a solution to so sustainability roles are important within hospitals. Arts roles are important for staff and patient wellbeing and are often funded through the hospitals charity not hospital budgets.

The government prioritising NHS funding is a huge issue. We all need to think carefully about the society we want to live in when we can next vote.

I think it just need managed a lot better. I recently had a tour through work and it's really shocking how things are run. Servo (Scotland) should be carrying swag bags!

It might be to you, but it is to a lot of people. That is a rather tone deaf comment 🤔

Massive overhaul. I was severd some sort of animal valves whilst there and noticed they are using actual weetabix brand weetabix.

If people want gold standard health care, cradle to grave, catering to every whim and alleged need, free at point of use, then it needs to be funded.

Considering what has happened with fuel prices recently, it is a good idea to future proof the NHS by looking at energy long term. I get the impression that as an organisation it normally looks at the short term eg IT systems which could be a hacking target.

I left a frontline nhs job. It was nothing to do with pay and everything to do with my hours being changed with 4 days notice, and my pre agreed family friendly hours being removed. Other factors influencing my decision were a workplace bullying culture and a lack of support for staff (eg people with cancer pressured to return, people with severe depression told that taking sick leave would reflect badly on them).
I do earn slightly more in private healthcare, but that’s balanced by only receiving SSP, and having significantly less leave and a much lower pension. My career is also less secure. However, I’m appreciated and supported and that makes the difference. I wouldn’t return to the NHS for anything short of double my salary (and possibly not even that)

Because the NHS is a monopoly employer for HCPs. Of course they shouldn't take advantage of this to keep pay low, and of course it's scary that they're doing nothing to address the chronic level of vacancies, but market forces dictate project managers, corporate staff, IT staff especially need at least semi tempting salaries to entice anyone to apply. It's still markedly less than people would earn in the public sector for the same roles (that require the same quals and experience). I'm a project manager and earn substantially more than £50k with less than a decade of experience.

This is the driver behind the net-zero roles: https://www.england.nhs.uk/greenernhs/get-involved/organisations/

NHS trusts are accountable to NHS England on their progress.

The third role is a fixed term contract paid for from charitable funds and the wording suggests potentially third sector or LA/other government funding.

I do think that there are inefficiencies within the NHS with duplication and disorganisation. There are challenges around how funding flows and the capacity of organisations to make capital investments that in the longer-term would reduce costs but the capital is not available to them to do so. We forever buy cheap shoes because the money isn’t there to buy the expensive ones which will last.

Well that's subjective.

I don't want to pay towards that position, im happy with neutral paint on the walls & local schools/artists/WI artwork on the walls & bung the saved money into salary pot for another nurse or equipment.

Net zero / energy efficiency roles can actually pay for themselves. The increase in electricity bills is such that even a 1-2% saving would pay for the salary with no problem.

I have some contacts in public sector estates, and one said that the INCREASE in their electricity bill per year over the last 3 years was about £1.5M, and that's on top of whatever they were paying before. A 1% saving on that would pay for several energy managers.

The Cambridge Arts Manager is actually asking for a shit ton of expertise and qualifications for what would probably be the lowest salary level - Thirty three grand for a qualified project manager, data manager, professional skills in film, audio, graphic design? They're expecting a huge amount for less than you'd get working for a local council call centre handling calls about bin collections and neighbours leaving an old sofa in their front garden.

Just a couple of points on your comment

I work in the NHS and art project are almost always funded by charity. Most charities can only fund hospitals for things that will be over and above the normal care they should expect or to enhance their experience.

Sustainablity is a mandated issue that the nhs as one of the largest organisations in the uk had a responsibility to address. The sustainability managers often have a wide role and can often save money too

There is money for front line workers but we just can't recruit enough staff