Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Ukraine Invasion: Part 40

994 replies

MagicFox · 13/05/2023 15:17

40 threads, still here πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦

OP posts:
Thread gallery
221
TheABC · 22/05/2023 12:24

But you do raise an interesting point, albeit unintended, dissenting voices on this thread that suggest Ukraine may not succeed, however much we want them too, are shut down with "Putin admirer etc"

I remember the 'oh shit' moment back in February last year when Russia rolled their army in. The default assumption of the time was that Ukraine had no chance against the world's second-mightiest military.

Here we are, a year later and Kyiv is still free. Ukraine is still a functioning entity with its language, currency, parliament and president. It has mustered billions of pounds (or dollars) of support from two of the world's leading political blocs.

I don't know if Ukraine will regain all of its territory. I don't know if it will 'win' the next offensive and I'm not so blind as to write off the Russian Army as a paper tiger.

I just know, at some point, both countries will have to sit down at the negotiating table Given that Russia tried to wipe out the country, that alone is a victory.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 22/05/2023 12:38

Kyiv Independent Telegram

⚑️Biden pledges (https://kyivindependent.com/biden-says-putin-will-not-break-resolve-as-ukrainian-pilots-to-begin-training-on-f-16-jets/) support for Ukraine's air force.
U.S. President Joe Biden on May 21 pledged support for Ukraine's air force, saying that the U.S. would start training Ukrainian pilots to fly fourth-generation fighter aircraft, including F-16 fighter jets.

⚑️ PresidentZelensky proposed to hold the Summit of the Peace Formula in July, a "symbolic" time when Ukraine will mark 500 days of defending against Russia's full-scale invasion. (https://kyivindependent.com/zelensky-proposes-to-hold/)

⚑️Ukrainian military says it controls 'some buildings' in southwestern Bakhmut, situation 'extremely difficult (https://kyivindependent.com/ukraine-says/).'

⚑️Zelensky: Bakhmut hasn't been captured (https://kyivindependent.com/zelensky-says-ukraines-military-perform-tasks-in-bakhmut/) by Russia.
Currently (Ukrainian) soldiers are performing very important assignments," Zelensky told a press conference during the G7 Summit in Hiroshima, Japan. "They're in Bakhmut. I won't say in which locations but this means that Bakhmut has not been seized by Russia as of now. There can't be two or three interpretations of this."

⚑️Ukraine’s military reports (https://kyivindependent.com/ukraines-military-reports-advance-near-bakhmut/) advance near Bakhmut.
Ukraine's Third Assault Brigade on May 21 reported that it had advanced 700 meters deep into previously Russian-occupied territory near Bakhmut in Donetsk Oblast.
The brigade said that the length of the frontline affected by the advance was 1,730 meters.

⚑️Land Forces chief says Ukrainian troops may soon encircle (https://kyivindependent.com/land-forces-chief-says-ukraine-close-to-bakhmuts-tactical-encirclement/) Bakhmut.

⚑️ General Staff: Ukraine hits (https://kyivindependent.com/general-staff-ukraine-hits-two-russian-ammunition-depots-over-past-day/) 2 Russian ammunition depots over past day.
Ukraine’s rocket and artillery forces struck five concentration areas of Russian troops, two ammunition depots, three artillery units at their firing positions, two control points, an electronic warfare system, an anti-aircraft missile system and β€œanother important target,” the General Staff said in its morning update.

⚑️ Energoatom: Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant switches (https://kyivindependent.com/russian-shelling-threatens-nuclear-disaster-at-zaporizhzhia-plant/) to emergency generators.
Russian shelling on the morning of May 22 has severed the last remaining external power line to the Russian-occupied Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant (ZNPP), Ukraine's nuclear energy company Energoatom said.
"It is impossible to renew the station's external power supply at this time, an accident with radiation consequences for the whole world may occur," Energoatom said.

⚑️ Air Force: Air defense needs (https://kyivindependent.com/air-force-spox-air-defense-means-against-ballistic-missiles-insufficient/) more systems to counter ballistic missiles.
Ukraine’s air defense lacks sufficient means to protect the airspace against large-scale ballistic missile strikes, Air Force spokesperson Yurii Ihnat said in the wake of heavy attacks against Ukraine on May 21-22.

⚑️AP: African delegation to discuss (https://kyivindependent.com/ap-african-delegation-to-discuss-ukrainian-grain-russian-fertilizers-with-kyiv-moscow/) Ukrainian grain, Russian fertilizers with Kyiv, Moscow.
A delegation of six African leaders set to hold talks with Kyiv and Moscow aims to "initiate a peace process" but also agree on increasing Ukrainian grain exports and easing shipments of Russian fertilizers, a key mediator told the Associated Press.
Presidents of South Africa, Senegal, Egypt, the Republic of Congo, Uganda, and Zambia plan to visit Ukraine and Russia in June on what they position as a peace mission.

⚑️ Russian governor claims (https://kyivindependent.com/armed-russian-volunteer-groups-allegedly-fighting-alongside-ukrainian-forces-claim-attacks-in-belgorod-oblast/) explosions in Belgorod Oblast.

Ukrainian State-Owned Enterprises Weekly – Issue 88
(https://kyivindependent.com/ukrainian-state-owned-enterprises-weekly-issue-88/)
The Cabinet of Ministers approved a draft law aimed at launching the corporate governance reform of the Gas Transmission System Operator of Ukraine (GTSOU); Armin Papperger, the CEO of the German company Rheinmetall, one of the world leaders in the defense industry, said that his company had signed an agreement with Ukroboronprom to set up a joint venture to repair tanks in Ukraine.

⚑️Modi says India will do β€˜everything’ (https://kyivindependent.com/https-kyivindependent-com-ghost-editor-post-646a606ec03063b7d27a8fd8/) to stop Russia’s war, abstains from imposing sanctions.
In a first in-person meeting since the start of Russia’s all-out invasion, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi told President Volodymyr Zelensky that India would do everything it could to help end the war.

⚑️Japan to provide Ukraine with 100 vehicles (https://kyivindependent.com/japan-to-provide-ukraine-with-100-armored-vehicles-emergency-food-kits-medical-assistance/), 30,000 food kits, medical assistance.
Japan would also accept wounded Ukrainian soldiers.

⚑️ Prosecutor General’s Office records (https://kyivindependent.com/prosecutor-generals-office-records-over-88-500-russian-war-crimes-crimes-of-aggression-in-ukraine/) over 88,500 Russian war crimes, crimes of aggression in Ukraine.

over 700 troops lost again and 20 artillery.

Ukraine Invasion: Part 40
Howpo · 22/05/2023 12:46

TheABC · 22/05/2023 12:24

But you do raise an interesting point, albeit unintended, dissenting voices on this thread that suggest Ukraine may not succeed, however much we want them too, are shut down with "Putin admirer etc"

I remember the 'oh shit' moment back in February last year when Russia rolled their army in. The default assumption of the time was that Ukraine had no chance against the world's second-mightiest military.

Here we are, a year later and Kyiv is still free. Ukraine is still a functioning entity with its language, currency, parliament and president. It has mustered billions of pounds (or dollars) of support from two of the world's leading political blocs.

I don't know if Ukraine will regain all of its territory. I don't know if it will 'win' the next offensive and I'm not so blind as to write off the Russian Army as a paper tiger.

I just know, at some point, both countries will have to sit down at the negotiating table Given that Russia tried to wipe out the country, that alone is a victory.

Thats a good point, though it must be remembered that UA in 2022 was far different to the one in 2014 & it did look like Kiev would be taken once the airport was attacked.

I do not believe Ukraine can sit down with Russia until at least they are near 2022 borders but of course thats up to the Ukrainians.

@ReleaseTheDucksOfWar Thanks for the PM & no i didn't find any of your points hostile, i ve been on MNs for a while now and was quite populr on the Brexit threads, well at least by some! lol!

I just think history tells us small nations invaded by large ones, rarely ends well in the short term, atm the moment the situation there appears to be a glorified test bed for Western munitions i.e not enough to turn the tide of battle but enough to ensure stalemate, meanwhile destruction and loss of life continues unabated.

In my ignorant opinion, i would open up the Black Sea, yes there are risks but not doing so carries more, not least in food security and allowing Russia to have more fronts to launch attacks, regardless of the situation on the ground.

If Ukraine succeeds on the battle ground, can they function as a country with Russia controlling their coast and ports?

strawberriesarenot · 22/05/2023 12:47

TheABC · 22/05/2023 12:24

But you do raise an interesting point, albeit unintended, dissenting voices on this thread that suggest Ukraine may not succeed, however much we want them too, are shut down with "Putin admirer etc"

I remember the 'oh shit' moment back in February last year when Russia rolled their army in. The default assumption of the time was that Ukraine had no chance against the world's second-mightiest military.

Here we are, a year later and Kyiv is still free. Ukraine is still a functioning entity with its language, currency, parliament and president. It has mustered billions of pounds (or dollars) of support from two of the world's leading political blocs.

I don't know if Ukraine will regain all of its territory. I don't know if it will 'win' the next offensive and I'm not so blind as to write off the Russian Army as a paper tiger.

I just know, at some point, both countries will have to sit down at the negotiating table Given that Russia tried to wipe out the country, that alone is a victory.

When that point is reached, whatever borders Ukraine has agreed, I really hope that immediately it is allowed to join both the EU and NATO.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 22/05/2023 12:48

UNITED24 Media Telegram

✈️ Biden received a "firm assurance" that Ukraine will not use the F-16 on the territory of the Russian Federation.

⚑️ Ukraine has resumed power supply to the Zaporizhzhia NPP, the station is again switching to power from the Ukrainian energy system, β€” Ukrenergo.

Training of Ukrainian pilots on the F-16 has already begun, EU High Representative Josep Borrell said

UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres said it is time to reform the Security Council and the Bretton Woods institutions β€” so that they correspond to the "realities of the modern world". According to him, Russia's invasion of Ukraine and COVID-19 showed that the Security Council did not fulfill its primary function.

Latvia and Estonia create a single air defense system. Countries begin negotiations with the manufacturer of the IRIS-T air defense system.

Russia has suffered losses of about 100 thousand people in Bakhmut, β€” Biden
The US leader noted that such a level of personnel losses is difficult to compensate.

Self-proclaimed leader of Belarus Lukashenko will meet Putin in Moscow on Wednesday to discuss "problems in relations that should not exist at all" [seems he recovered]

⚑️About 70,000 people in Chisinau came to today's rally in support of Moldova's European integration.

Italy and its allies are considering the possibility of training Ukrainian pilots on Western-style aircraft, Prime Minister Meloni said.
At the same time, she noted that Italy does not have F-16 fighters, so it will not be able to supply them to Ukraine.

15 drones and 4 cruise missiles were shot down over Dnipropetrovsk region at night, but there are also arrivals, β€” head of the Regional Military Administration Serhii Lysak

Power went out in occupied Simferopol, Crimea

We must analyze why we are forced to discuss peace and stability in various forums. Why the UN, created to preserve peace, cannot prevent conflicts today, β€” Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi at the G7 meeting.
According to Modi, today, the UN does not reflect the current realities of the world and "can only remain a mouthpiece."

Georgetown University invited Navalny's daughter to speak at graduation: students protest.

The head of the IAEA, Raphael Grossi, is developing a draft agreement on the Zaporizhzhia NPP to guarantee the safety of the NPP ahead of a counteroffensive by the Armed Forces, writes the Washington Post citing US and EU diplomats.
The publication writes that the plan contains the following principles:
▫️prohibition of placement of heavy military equipment and military personnel at the station;
▫️ban on firing from the territory and towards the station, in particular, ban on attacking personnel on the site;
▫️protection of all safety and security systems at the NPP;
▫️protection of all external power lines;
▫️control over compliance with the above principles.
"This plan is less ambitious than Grossi's initial attempt to create a full-fledged protection zone around the nuclear power plant, but nuclear energy experts say it can still improve the dangerous situation," the newspaper writes.

🀝 The participants of the final session at the G7 summit agreed with Zelenskyy's arguments and made a decision

"For the first time since the beginning of the full-scale Russian aggression, all the leaders of the G7 and the leaders of the most influential countries of the Global South β€” India, Brazil, and Indonesia β€” found themselves at the same table with the President of Ukraine. It was this G7 session that became the most important and productive for Ukraine," Deputy Head of the Office of the President Ihor Zhovkva said on Facebook.
The participants of the final meeting made the following decisions:
▫️all states must adhere to the principles of the UN Charter, first of all, such as respect for sovereignty and territorial integrity;
▫️conflicts must be resolved exclusively peacefully and based on dialogue;
▫️prevent unilateral attempts to change the status quo anywhere in the world forcefully;
▫️the international order should be based on the rule of law.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 22/05/2023 12:57

If Ukraine succeeds on the battle ground, can they function as a country with Russia controlling their coast and ports?

That's a very good question, as in, the answer isn't particularly good.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 22/05/2023 13:01

Live: Ukraine Telegram

British intelligence has reported that Russia is likely to create a new "elite" attack aircraft group, codenamed Storm, to operate over the territory of Ukraine.
According to the agency, the unit may include at least one squadron of Su-24 and Su-34 fighter-bombers, as well as attack helicopter squadrons.

Belarus pardons opposition journalist, one of the founders of the Nexta telegram channel Roman Protasevich, who was sentenced by the Belarusian regime to 8 years in prison

”The Russian Volunteer Corps”, whose fighters claim to be fighting on the side of Ukraine, said they were performing combat missions in Russia, while the Freedom of Russia Legion called on residents of Russian border regions to stay home and "not resist."
In particular, the fighters published a video against the background of road signs in the settlements of Lyubimovka, Bezlyudovka, Churovichi

The Freedom of Russia Legion announced the "liberation" of the border village of Kozynka in the Belgorod region. Units of the legion and the Russian Volunteer Corps allegedly entered the town of Graivoron.

The Russian Telegram channel Shot writes about a "fierce battle with a Ukrainian subversive group" on the border of the Belgorod region near the village of Dronovka. Military equipment is allegedly "involved on both sides, and several drones were spotted in the sky.

This is what one of the fire stations in Dnipro looks like after the Russian attack

Ukraine Invasion: Part 40
Ukraine Invasion: Part 40
ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 22/05/2023 13:09

The Freedom of Russia Legion announced the "liberation" of the border village of Kozynka in the Belgorod region. Units of the legion and the Russian Volunteer Corps allegedly entered the town of Graivoron.

Heaven knows what this is all about!

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 22/05/2023 13:10

map for above snippet

Ukraine Invasion: Part 40
minsmum · 22/05/2023 13:16

I just came on to ask what you all make of this Freedom of Russia Legion, Twitter is saying they have taken control of 3 settlements

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 22/05/2023 13:19

Self-proclaimed leader of Belarus Lukashenko will meet Putin in Moscow on Wednesday to discuss "problems in relations that should not exist at all" [seems he recovered]

Makes me wonder if Putin decided Luka needed to get just ill enough to realise he wasn't the actual leader of Belarus & couldn't decide the country's destiny, but not so ill that he died. If so I expect a more compliant Lukashenko to emerge from that meeting.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 22/05/2023 13:45

Howpo
look how long Russia has been prepared to prosecute previous wars

I don't know; how long has Russia been prepared to prosecute previous wars? Bearing in mind that Russia, as presently constituted, has only existed at all since 1991 at the earliest, what wars have they been involved in?

(Goes and has a check-around)

Russia have been involved in oppression in Syria since 2015 (or before, but it's not entirely clear when they started bombing civilian targets there), but that is not exactly their war; it's Bashar Hafez al-Assad's war against his own people, with Russia giving him assistance

Russia were involved in
Tajikistan (which is Ingushetia really?) between May 1992 and June 1997
The East Prigorodny conflict, lasted 30th October to 6th November 1992 (Russia seems to have been on both sides of that one)
The First Chechen War, lasted December 1994 to August 1996
The War of Dagestan, 7th August 1999 to 14th September 1999
The Second Chechen War, 26th August 1999 to 31st May 2000
The Insurgency in Chechnya, 1st June 2000 to 16th April 2009
The War in Ingushetia, 21st July 2007 to 19th May 2015

They have also supported (or possibly invented or created) separatist movements in South Ossetia, January 1991 to June 1992; Georgia, December 1991 to December 1993; Abkhazia, August 1992 to September 1993; the Russo-Georgian War, 7th-12th August 2008.

Otherwise there has been Yeltsin versus the rest in 1993, which lasted for ten days and was sorted out when Yeltsin got help from the army, and Ukraine, which they definitely have not won.

So they've had two long, dragging conflicts which they eventually managed to get out of, and now have one which they can't win if we go by their stated objectives, though it is possible they may not lose it completely. Apart from those, they seem to stick to wars for about two years tops.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 22/05/2023 14:23

Makes me wonder if Putin decided Luka needed to get just ill enough to realise he wasn't the actual leader of Belarus & couldn't decide the country's destiny, but not so ill that he died. If so I expect a more compliant Lukashenko to emerge from that meeting

ugh. Seems possible :(

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 22/05/2023 14:30

well this is interesting (if true)

Belgorod Peoples Republic: There is one interesting object in Graivoronsky district, 17 km from the border. Military unit 25624. It's also Belgorod-22. Storage of nuclear shells of the 12th Directorate. Panic there would have turned out in full.

Ukraine Front Lines
AT EuromaidanPR

Howpo · 22/05/2023 14:42

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime

Very much hope you are correct and we will start to see Russian losses and withdrawal v soon.

notimagain · 22/05/2023 15:00

@Howpo

Also, will F-16's actually reach Ukraine? does the west want to risk this tech falling into Russian and hence Chinese hands?

The F-16 in it's basic form first flew in the mid 70's and is actually relatively old tech - it's one of the fourth generation fighters. Fifth generation types have been in service a while (e.g. F-22) and sixth generation are on the drawing board.

The actual airframes the Ukrainians might get are rumoured to be those upgraded/built to a roughly year 2000 standard so there should be zero chance of really modern airframe tech getting into the hands of undesirables.

minsmum · 22/05/2023 15:03

They say that they are 10 km from the nuclear place in Belgorod

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 22/05/2023 16:01

if this Free Russia lot hold that nuclear place and the Russians hold Zap', the irony will be relishable.

Surplus2requirements · 22/05/2023 16:15

If nothing else it's a useful distraction for stretched Russian occupiers to have to turn around and deal with

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 22/05/2023 17:25

The russians urgently evacuated the storage of nuclear ammunition in the Belgorod region, - Yusov, a representative of the General Directorate of Intelligence of MoD.

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 22/05/2023 18:06

Can someone explain to me like I'm a 5 year old what is actually happening in Belgorod, I keep reading about Ukrainian backed Russian freedom fighters.
Are they intending to enact a coup and take over this part of Russia claiming it as an independent state?
Won't Putin crush them with whatever Russian forces are in the region? There doesn't seem to be very many of the freedom fighters.
Isn't Putin going to say this is Ukraine attacking Russian civilians on Russian land and use it as an excuse for escalation? (Which would obviously be hypocritical but might be just the excuse he's looking for.)

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 22/05/2023 18:08

Does he actually need any excuse for any vile behaviour he happens to feel like? He hasn't so far; there was no excuse for the use of nerve-gas in Syria, for example.

MissConductUS · 22/05/2023 18:21

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 22/05/2023 18:06

Can someone explain to me like I'm a 5 year old what is actually happening in Belgorod, I keep reading about Ukrainian backed Russian freedom fighters.
Are they intending to enact a coup and take over this part of Russia claiming it as an independent state?
Won't Putin crush them with whatever Russian forces are in the region? There doesn't seem to be very many of the freedom fighters.
Isn't Putin going to say this is Ukraine attacking Russian civilians on Russian land and use it as an excuse for escalation? (Which would obviously be hypocritical but might be just the excuse he's looking for.)

I don't think anyone really knows what their intentions are at this point. They have accomplished two things though. They've greatly embarrassed Putin, and their actions will force Russia to deploy very scarce resources to the area to deal with it and prevent future incursions. Many of the Russian paramilitary forces that would normally stop this are busy fighting in Ukraine.

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 22/05/2023 18:43

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 22/05/2023 18:08

Does he actually need any excuse for any vile behaviour he happens to feel like? He hasn't so far; there was no excuse for the use of nerve-gas in Syria, for example.

Very true but I think he likes to find an excuse for the domestic audience hence the many false flag operations the Kremlin have been involved in.

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 22/05/2023 18:44

Thanks for that comment MissConduct, I'm very much in favour of anything that makes Putin look foolish.

Swipe left for the next trending thread