Was DP rude or our neighbour?

[CurlyTandtheTangles]

Name changed cos this is outing.
And it's going to be long. Sorry.

Background - our neighbours are in their 70's, Known them nearly 20yrs. Used to get on brilliantly. In last 5 yrs the wife (let's call her Jane) has got very bossy, disagrees with anything you say and looks for arguments - it's tedious.

So we've stepped back slightly but still look after each others houses/pets when away. DP does the odd DIY task for them.We have keys for each others properties.

Yesterday evening our neighbour came round. DP answered the door. Jane asked if they could have access through our back garden to access their back wall. A builder is coming to sort out the back wall but can't get a ladder up in their back garden (its tiered in a weird way and huge chicken house in way). Not an urgent job but builder is available

To access the back of our house you have to come through the garage and then through a connected workshop into back garden. You can't access the back any other way except through the house.

DP said shouldnt be a problem.Jane said it would be about 3pm (Tues - today) DP said "ah sorry no" as none of us would be in. And told her the times we'd be home.

Jane wasn't happy. Voice getting annoyed. She kept going onto DP about how do delivery people get to the back of house.... she was angling for DP to give her the fob for the garage and key to workshop. DP wasn't having of it and repeated times someone would be home.

Reasons DP didn't want her to have the fob and keys is because he's got lots of equipment in garage and workshop and was concerned the builder would be up a ladder at the back of our/their house and leave the garage etc with doors wide open. And also our dogs would go bonkers seeing a stranger in the garden (patio doors).

So (you can probably guess what's happened today)....

Earlier this evening we were in our garden. I noticed the guinea pig run I left by the fence dividing our gardens is in a different position. We looked up and obvious building work has been done on their wall.

Further inspection shows muddy flat grass and muddy footprints on our decking.

I can only think Jane has been in our house, snooped for the garage fob and workshop key. Made the dogs go crazy. Let the builder through.

I was/am fuming. But a tiny part of me thinks should we have given her the fob and key,???

DP seems cross and said he will deal with it tomorrow. Obviously I'm still stewing over this - DP is snoring.

It's rude isn't it? It's fucking downright out of order isn't it? Or is my way of thinking wonky (I am autistic so fuck up on social stuff lots).

Bit harsh. Are you this pleasant in person or is it just on Mumsnet?

OP said on the 10th - "DP said husband (who is lovely) seemed caught off guard and flustered. DP said he's told them he will be round tomorrow to discuss."

So that means DP was going round on the 11th again, to speak to Jane/both.

Earlier this morning,@Mydietstartstomorrow asked 'did DP go round yesterday...' so I am therefore guessing that @Mydietstartstomorrow is referring to the above comment made by the OP...

Perhaps you @Pringleface should read the full thread before being rude.

this ^^

Sorry for failure to update. I was out having fun with one of my children until late.

DP went round early evening.
Both Jane and husband in. Jane was straight into defensive/argumentative manner (which is what we've seen of late).

Apparently her arguments consisted of:
They'd not be bothered if it was us asking.
Builders are hard to get (agree with this which is why I initially wondered if DP was wrong to not let them).
She thought it would be fine because both households have popped into the others house when others not there (this is true - I've often gone round when their alarm goes off to reset it, leave parcels or leave cake when we've over baked)
They've done alot of us in the past (I agree and we have done alot for them)

Apparently she was getting upset/angry. DP apparently said stuff along the lines of not here for a fight but why think ok to do it after he'd said no, was out of order, refusal was given for good reasons and not to be petty, she might not agree but she should respect, and he was really annoyed about it. He does cool calm vibe well and he doesn't often get annoyed so it's a big deal when he does.

Then her husband spoke and tried to calm things but Jane started crying so DP left.

Much later a knock at the door (I was not home) Jane and husband with a load of decent beer for DP (where's my wine???) and a card. Husband took the lead on apologising and more importantly Jane did a sincere apology.

This was in the vein of how our families have supported each other over the years, how our children have become like grandchildren (they were/are great with our children), how much our help has meant to them in knowing there's kind supportive people next door because they hear horror stories about neighbours from people they know. How they realise they crossed the boundary and they realise this could end the close bond, would hate for it to happen. Sorry Sorry Sorry.

DP accepted their apology. Husband had our keys and handed them to DP. DP has told them to keep them on the proviso they use them appropriately.
I was "eh??" at this.

DP said to me he does not want to go to war with them or have silence between us. He works away alot and doesn't want me to deal with uncomfy relationships.

He also selfishly likes them to have a key incase one of us forgets ours and is locked out ( this is something I am good at doing) and he feels more relaxed when he's working away knowing they can get into our home incase of a problem (I have a medical condition as does one of our children).

He thinks they won't do it again and it's a case of being too familiar after 20yrs and them thinking of us as the family they never had and they were not malicious. He said we'll see how it goes. He thinks there's some medical stuff going on and we've made our point, they know he's annoyed and does not want to be piling stress on them. We also don't need stress either so we will move on from this.

I think this is an excellent result, and an example of how well things can be sorted if people don't go in with all guns blazing.

Like you, I think I would probably have preferred to have the keys back, but thinking about it, your husband is right. They've apologised (sincerely) and it seems a shame to throw away 20 years of friendship for one (however appalling) piece of bad behaviour.

Glad it's sorted to everyone's satisfaction.

I’d get my key back. Jane is a CF!

@CurlyTandtheTangles

^*DP accepted their apology. Husband had our keys and handed them to DP. DP has told them to keep them on the proviso they use them appropriately.
I was "eh??" at this. *^

A pity - that's what a programmable keysafe, installed unobtrusively outside your home, is for. 🌹

That sounds like a great outcome. Well done to the men for being so sensible about it all.

But stop letting yourself into theirs whenever you want.

Thanks for updating us! So glad there was an amicable outcome. Sounds like you both handled it very well.

I think leaving them with the key is fine because based on what your update, OP. I just can't see Jane pulling the same stunt again – she sounds truly sorry, that before this there was a good bond/history between you and that you never know when you might get locked out!

(this is true - I've often gone round when their alarm goes off to reset it, leave parcels or leave cake when we've over baked)

I think the alarm thing is fair enough. You want someone to investigate and it's very annoying for everyone to have an alarm blaring and no-one doing anything about it. But for the rest, I'd stop doing that. Whilst yes, she crossed a line going in after you'd expressly said no, I can see a kind of annoyance with 'but you randomly let yourself in to ours'.

He also selfishly likes them to have a key incase one of us forgets ours and is locked out ( this is something I am good at doing)

I've lived on my own for many years. You learn very quickly to remember your keys and not lock yourself out, when you're forced to be self-reliant. Or, as per PP, get a keysafe.

Hopefully it will not happen again, as they seem to be aware that a boundary has been crossed, and they know that you will have any transgressions on camera.

I am sure Jane did not give an answer as to why she thought it was ok even after she was told no, but I hope they are aware how invasive it was for her to have invaded your space and rifled through your belongings to find your keys/fob.

and they certainly should have brought you a bottle of wine or cake.😉

I think that as they now know that you can see who enters your home, it won't occur again

I have a keysafe that is used frequently by DS2 as he forgets his keys... my manager at work also knows the number incase l don't turn up and they do a welfare check as l also have a medical issue.

Your husband sounds like a fantastic human being.

The fact you've let yourself into theirs to leave them cake does put a bit of a different spin on it! But the important thing is you have a way forward.

See how you feel about the keys - this needs to be a joint decision really and if either of you is uncomfortable with it I think you should default to them not having them.You could change the locks and just let them know the key won't work anymore.

I've read everything here. I think your husband is a jewel. He handled it calmly but got his point across. He stated his case and what he expected from the future. And I think you need to tell him that not just whisper it in the dog's ear.

Great outcome. But do keep an eye on Jane because sadly it does sound like (the start of) possible Alzheimers, very sadly. And you and DP both sound lovely x

Thank you for the update OP, your DH sounds like a lovely person. I also agree with him re leaving the key with them, I think they'll be careful now given they know you can see comings and going's and this act would have meant a lot to them. I would still get a lock box though.

A great outcome for everyone and so nice to have a proper update from an OP

Yep. I also think that letting them keep the keys was a sign of reconciliation and good faith that will mean a lot. No way will they do this again.

But yes, invest in a key safe. They're SO useful. And it means that you won't have the awkwardness of having to ask them for the keys if you get locked out.

If you have medical issues they're also really good, as if you ever have to call an ambulance, you can give the operator the passcode and paramedics can get in if you're unable to get to the door (ours was fired as part of the alarm system when my husband was ill and confined to a hospital bed at home)

Personally I'm glad your DH had them keep the keys. They do sound like nice people who just made a (catastrophic) lapse in judgement. I'm absolutely not defending them, just saying that I think it was a good outcome. It says a great deal that she gave a heartfelt apology.

My personal advise would be to pretend this never happened. Ignore the emotionless people telling you to never speak to them again.

Oh my gosh, so she's been in and given him access, going completely against what you said?!!!!!!!
War!!! She's a cf!!! Get your keys back, hope builder needs to return ..... deny access.

Let her tyres down, put rats through her letterbox, bleach her lawn, have a ton of manure dumped in her front garden. Have parties, lots of loud parties. I'll think of more, don't worry! She has to pay for being so out of order!!

Was going to type my own reply but this is pretty much everything I would have said!

Great result Op!

Very well handled. Would have been a real shame to throw away years of good friendship.

Blimey, do you normally go def con 9 on people after they've apologised?! Or are you being sarcastic? If it's the former you need to read OP's updates.

I assumed sarcasm @Inkpotlover - at least I hope that's the case!

I hope so too but you can never tell with MN!