Two dogs shot in London by police

[flowagurl]

I’m usually very empathetic and recently even posted on an animal testing post but I just can’t find any compassion in my heart for out of control and dangerous animals at the moment, it’s just getting ridiculous. I obviously feel for the owner who I hope gets some kind of mental support/ counselling.

It’s so confusing as I’m usually so compassionate, I guess having a small child and the number of dog attacks does something to your brain? I hate walking past Bullies with my baby in the pram. Even normal dogs I’m starting to get very hesitant about. For context I usually cry if I step on a silver worm in the bathroom so this is a very strange reaction for me.

Interested to hear what other dog owning/ non dog owning people think. Also the government are going to have to step in at some point right?

You'd probably do better to quote @WiddlinDiddlin. I haven't got a clue - am just googling "history of dogs" right now...

Do we know that? Or did the officer have his gun aimed at the dog/danger, as he would have been trained, so he was ready IF it was necessary, which it turned out it was.

It has gone beyond responsible/irresponsible owners when there are dogs that powerful and uncontrollable when aroused. It could happen to any of the many powerful pets that deluded owners believe are cuddly and well trained and wouldn't hurt a fly.

This is common knowledge so anyone who thinks making dog ownership more expensive by dog licencing and training classes , is misinformed . Also I remember dog licencing , It meant nothing, just a piece of paper my mum would shove in a drawer , after getting it from the Post Office .

I came across an XL Bully on Saturday while out for a walk with my 9 year old and I cannot work out why anyone would want this dog. My daughter moved away and the man was quite offended and told her he was just a baby and very friendly 🙄 Dog was 9 months old and absolutely huge, the man had the lead wrapped around his hand and wrist and it still didn't look like a relaxing walk, he was really putting in a lot of effort to control this dog.

I just told him she doesn't like dogs (which isn't true) and we walked away, she wouldn't have stood a chance if he had let go and that dog decided to pounce on her.

@noimaginationforausername people really haven’t got a clue. I have big working dogs so I’m no stranger to them but I would never let someone stroke mine and certainly wouldn’t push them on someone!

Only yesterday I was walking with a newborn, toddler DD and my obviously decrepit old dog (14 years old and shuffles rather than walks) and some man was very offended that I wouldn’t let my old dog play with his huge Rottweiler stating it was friendly and not to be scared of it. He clearly had no clue because it’s body language was shouting the opposite not to mention I had 2 young children with me! Why would anyone want to let a large breed loose around unknown babies…and I say that as someone who owns a large breed. Maybe more education is required for everyone before they are allowed to own any dog.

This thread is bonkers. All of these dogs should be put down. We live on the same street with one which is a walking liability and it is a matter of time before it ends in disaster. Hopefully not with their baby or child, or mine. Maybe the bloke who owns it because he wants to look hard 😒

All the 'lovely natured' comments. Seriously, why not just buy a polar bear? Or a lion? "It's the owner not the breed" right? Continually insisting you bought a weapon because it's just so cuddly is so wearing 🙄

The people that own these dogs enjoy the perception of them being dangerous or aggressive and then trying to convince you otherwise. They are head messers, best avoided. You feel sorry for the children in these families because they have to live with such stupid, self centered parents.

yep, only on mumsnet right, have a read through this thread, other places online are much more hardline AGAINST weapon dogs
https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/13bgeac/met_stands_by_officers_after_man_tasered_and_two/
if you posted that on the reddit thread you'd be eviscerated

@SerendipityJane you don't say where the funding for all these extra policmen/women is coming from? If they are going to patrol every possible public space from Hyde Park to the remotest areas in Scotland then you're going to need a lot of them.
Or you would rather the police who from everything I've read are overstretched and also don't have the greatest record for clearing up serious crimes channelled their energies and resources into stopping and fining every dog owners who hasn't muzzled their dogs in a public space regardless of how remote it is instead of concentrating on other crimes like DV rape and sex offenders. In my career Ive seen lots of dog bites from all breeds the vast majority of people are bitten in their own homes/a friends/relatives home by their own or a friends/relatives dogs. Nearly all of those people who were tragically killed by a dog were killed in their own homes/garden again by a dog they either knew or belonged to someone they knew. Muzzling dogs on public isn't going to prevent dogs in public spaces this a big complaint isn't going to prevent off lead dogs from jumping up and knocking over toddlers/the elderly (a big complaint on here) and I question if will improve recall (another big complaint onhere) improve as many dogs come back for a treat so muzzling may worsen recall.

@WiddlinDiddlin has the right approach:
"Then new legislation - if your dog is involved in an offence, you and everyone else in the chain of ownership are potentially liable for that, with diminishing responsibility as appropriate of course (so if you bred a nice puppy, sold to nice owners, can show evidence for this.. but then the wheels fell off their life and they died and the dog went to a rescue... you're in the clear. But if you sold on a dog you knew to be dangerous, to a family with no dog experience and lots of small kids... you're also in the shit!)"
As she says a microchip should list all a dogs owners. Start with the breeders of dogs make them responsible for the life time of the dog, they should be focusing on breeding healthy good tempered dogs, breed a guarding dog we all know which dogs they are and the breeder has to prove that the new owners had the necessary knowledge and skills to train it perhaps this is where training classes could be made compulsory, I know someone who breeds malinois he scrupulously vets all potential owners, looking for at experience and understanding of a guarding and often difficult breed, breed a high energy working cocker spaniel and sell it to an 84 yr old 5 years down the road when the owner has either died or is unable to look after the dog and its now in rescue you have to justify why you did this. Then the owners have to be held responsible for purchasing the dog if you lied to the breeder and said you had 1/2 an acre of fenced garden the time and health to walk a dogs 2+ hours a day and provide other mental stimulation but lied to the breeder then you should be held responsible if your dog goes loopy and end up in rescue, and finally even organisations who rescue dogs if applicable should also demonstrate that the responsibly rehomed a dog (I've seen quite a few bites from rescue dogs who new owners swear blind that they were initially not told the dog had a bite history until they were bitten by it and then were told the dog had already bitten other people) . This kind of legislation is more enforceable and workable as it doesn't focus on a particular breed but on the breeders and the future owner(s).

Dog on lead, muzzle the dog, if your dog bites someone it is put to sleep, and the owner will be liable for costs of treatment and subject to prosecution for having an out of control animal.

If a dog bites or injures a child, a legal presumption of prison for the owner.

so TL;DR is that there's no point in any laws if they can't be enforced 100%.

Not sure you could have afforded to live in the age of telegrams (and yes, that does show my age).

@Corgiowner I did wonder how I would do dog training outside if my dog was wearing a muzzle , I think wearing muzzles would create even more anti-social behaviour in dogs . All good dogs like a game of fetch outside , or playing with a stick . Take that away from dogs and we have bored dogs on walks more interested in what other people are doing.

Staffies were never known as a "nanny breed" it's an urban myth.

seems the police may have changed their mode of response to these dogs since this incident in march

in the comments 'So this is what the owner said: The owner of an out-of-control dog who savaged a police horse in an east London park has insisted she is “so friendly” and it wasn’t her fault He criticised the have-a-go-hero passer-by who stepped in to help, using a long stick to keep the dog at bay. “The guy was rude,” said Hakan who has had Coco for around a year. “I was so angry at the time. He said I didn’t do nothing. I tried. “I reciprocate energy. If you’re rude to me I will be rude back to you'

You see what it is. The people who own these dogs are on a wind up. They like upsetting other people and alarming them. Scum

or is he so witless that he believes his dog is doing nothing wrong, the whole scene just beggars belief.
These people are so bonded to & in love with the animal that they cant see it for what it is.

The owner is 100% to blame here due to his aggressive behaviour and lack of cooperation with the police, however, as someone who has worked with dogs my whole life and worked in the veterinary industry for more years than I can count, those dogs did not seem aggressive, especially not the second one. All news reports state no one received medical treatment after the initial “attack” on the woman - if either of those dogs had attacked/mauled/bitten someone they would have most definitely required medical treatment (they may have been out of control but it doesn’t sound like they actually hurt anyone, not saying that is okay either though!) It seems like massive overkill to send armed police for a drunk man and a couple of barking dogs, never mind shooting the dogs and tasering the man in broad daylight but I’m assuming there must be information they haven’t released.

Something most definitely needs to be done about dog ownership in this country, not just for bully breeds (which I actually really dislike) but for all breeds. Just because you’re not seeing the labradors etc that have seriously hurt/mauled people in the news, doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen - I can assure you, it does. Breeding across all breeds is getting worse and dog owners are getting more and more irresponsible. Dogs are part of the family but everyone has to remember that they are NOT people, they’re predatory animals with 42 teeth in their mouths and with limited means of communication with human beings. There needs to be some serious regulations around dog ownership - classes to sit before getting a dog with a test to pass, mandatory training for multiple years (NOT a 6 week puppy course), annual temperament and training testing for dogs which will decide if they can be off lead, if they have to be muzzled in public, if they can be bred from or in some situations, if they should be humanely euthanised. The amount of people and other animals being killed or hurt by out of control dogs has reached breaking point and something certainly has to be done - like not allowing the man in the video to own dogs in the first place when he is clearly not mentally stable enough to.

In saying that, I think it’s too far gone now and the government/police do not have the funds or the desire to introduce something like the above. They don’t care enough about the human population never mind dogs. Realistically, there will just be more breeds added to the banned list and bully breed owners/breeders have no one but themselves to blame when that happens.

If any good can come out of the videos circulating, I hope it’s that people realise police can and will shoot out of control dogs which should encourage people to keep their beloved pets under control for their own safety, as well as everyone else’s. It does make me sad that the dogs have lost their lives in a pretty brutal way when the owner will walk away with a slap on the wrist - there should be proper jail time for people like that and a lifetime ban on owing dogs.

That's the thing, anyone who buys that sort of dog is either deluded or power mad scum anyway. They need to be pts or at least sterilised whenever they come in contact with a vet. So ugly too, all dogs are but bullies literally look evil.

those dogs did not seem aggressive really Niffler29? We're we watching the same clip? Because to me they seemed very reactive, so since I'm not up on dog nature, and you are, how do you describe the lunges, and then when the owner drops their lead they lunge again...I wouldn't my child anywhere near those dogs, would you? But can you translate me for what I see as aggression and you see as docile?

I also think a limit on the number of dogs owned by a household, i've visited childrens houses where ive had to step over dog shit, toys, bowls etc. Greeted by 3 bouncey animals and little tots trying to stay out of their way, combined with adults in a 80 square foot terraced house with a small yard. Everyone must be going dolayee
1 is enough.

You're right there is no point in having a law if you cant consistently enforce it or enforce it at the expense of other serious and significantly more prolific crimes. I've just walked my well behaved non jumping up non muzzled dogs who've never bit anyone in their lives and in fact I've never owned a dog in 57 years thats ever bit anyone in the remote area I live in. Ive met nobody this is the norm for us, should a policeman/women be lurking around trying to catch me? How will they know which field IM going to walk over so maybe there should be 3-4 policeman what a wonderful use of limited resources. Or if you are must bring in a law stating that dogs are muzzled in that law you list areas of high risk to Jo Public due to sheer number/age etc and where dogs are prolific so public parks cafes shops (although Ive no idea why any dog owner in their right mind takes their dogs into either of those).
@SerendipityJane you also haven't addressed my point that if you look at the stats most people who were killed by dogs either knew them or their owners and were in their homes or their owners homes muzzling in public will not address this.

I don't have the stats on non fatal dog bites requiring medical treatment but I do have 20 + years experience of it and admittedly anecdotally nearly all I've seen with dog bites bitten by dogs they know, I can't recall anyone being bitten by a dog they don't know.

@Corgiowner my cousin had her face ripped off by an GS who was obviously being abused in one garden jumped the fence and encountered 6 year old cousin.

XL bullys are not family pets, whoever buys these dogs literally does it for a dick extension surely?
Like pit bulls and big bull breeds - I do not undrestand why?

yes collies and frenchies nip 100% but look at the stats - bull breeds KILL, a nasty nip off a collie (had one)! just does that - nips not clamps on and shakes.

The DDA needs revising to include these bulldogs over a certain height/stature etc

I was shocked when I saw the video but knew there had to be more to it. Turns out dogs had savaged a woman just before. No sympathy- two less dangerous dogs off the street and hope the women recovers well.