Two dogs shot in London by police

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I’m usually very empathetic and recently even posted on an animal testing post but I just can’t find any compassion in my heart for out of control and dangerous animals at the moment, it’s just getting ridiculous. I obviously feel for the owner who I hope gets some kind of mental support/ counselling.

It’s so confusing as I’m usually so compassionate, I guess having a small child and the number of dog attacks does something to your brain? I hate walking past Bullies with my baby in the pram. Even normal dogs I’m starting to get very hesitant about. For context I usually cry if I step on a silver worm in the bathroom so this is a very strange reaction for me.

Interested to hear what other dog owning/ non dog owning people think. Also the government are going to have to step in at some point right?

I've watched the video and it's very sad, poor dogs ending up with an irresponsible owner like that.

Owner seems to let go of first dog lead and it moves towards the police, not really in full flight attack mode. Were the police reasonable to shot it ? I guess so, it might have bitten but was really only barking, no way was it a trained dog sent to attack. The dog was let down by its owner and his actions caused the dog to be shot :-(

Second dog, police got a fixed pole/slip lead around it's neck, seems to me the officer holding the pole was trying to steady the dog so armed officer could get a clean shot at the dog to kill it. For some reason the slip lead comes off and the dog tries to return to its owner but police chase and shoot it, no attempt was made to control the dog, it was going to be shot.

Unlikely these dogs could have been re-homed anyway.

There is another video on twitter thread showing the owner with these dogs on a busy street, similar scene dogs barking and owner shouting his mouth off. A woman is hysterical and scoops up her small dog into safety of her arms, possible that large dog has attempted to attack the small dog rather than the woman herself, who knows if this was same 'woman attacked' incident.
Horrible affair, poor poor dogs being owned by him :-(

So many people now have very low expectations for the behaviour of their dogs, or any common sense. So many out of control dogs all of types with some clueless idiot at the end of the lead.

I can honestly say if my dogs attacked a person or another animal I wouldn’t need it shot by the police because I would have it euthanised myself at the soonest opportunity. Just goes to show how irresponsible of the man in charge of them was to put them in that position, he is 100% to blame.

@MegaManic because you sound unhinged. Do you know her dogs? Or are you just being judgmental about the breeds. Not every dog is dangerous.

We could call them "The Police" ?

For some reason the slip lead comes off and the dog tries to return to its owner but police chase and shoot it, no attempt was made to control the dog, it was going to be shot.

The dog was struggling and those slip leads can only do so much, the dog might have been "returning to its owner" or it might have been going to protect its owner who was on the ground being restrained. The police office with the gun had to make a split second decision while the shot was clear of other officers and before one of his colleagues was potentially attacked.

He made the right and only decision he could.

Is there any need for that? Why am I an idiot? My dogs are genuinely extremely friendly and cuddly.

They're excitable and jumpy and a bit licky so not to everyone's taste but have never showed any aggression towards humans. Anyone coming to the house already knows about their presence and they're on short leads in public.

They're aged eleven and eight and extremely gentle with my little one. Eldest DC was seven when I got Dog1.

It's obviously an emotive subject but some of the suggestions here are mad.

I think one of us is definitely unhinged. No doubt you are the usual, my dog is just friendly type, all rights and no responsibilities. Every dog has the potential to be dangerous.
Of course I don't know her dogs but I know it is the height of stupidity to have a toddler sleeping with dogs that could potentially bite their face off.
Have you heard of kids being killed by dogs because their stupid parent left them with their lovely family pet or do you just ignore that?

Were the police reasonable to shoot it ?

Totally and utterly yes. Generally I despise what the police have become. But in this case I totally and utterly am prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt.

When you put your life and limb on the line to protect the public, then I've got your back. Imagining what might have happened had those two dogs got loose from the lead and escaped into the area doesn't bear thinking about.

I've just reread your response. I shouldn't be allowed near children?! What a barking (hehe) thread this is. I give up.

Fair enough I shouldn't have been rude but I just get so sick of this attitude. They are not cuddly babies, they are animals, that given a situation could attacked. You may well be lucky and they well never touch anyone but you can't actually know that. They are not babies, they are not human, they are animals and you should treat them like animals and not expect them to act like humans.
It was someone with your attitude that had a dog (so friendly, never aggressive, would only lick you to death) that attacked and injured my child so maybe bear that in mind so you child (or someone else's) doesn't end you scarred for life (not just physically) like mine.

@MegaManic no I'm not like that at all and understand that dogs aren't humans and treat them as dogs because that's what they are. There was no need for you to write that though saying she shouldn't be near children! What a horrid thing to say. Just vile.

people who do not understand that dogs are NOT cuddly babies should not be looking after children with those dogs - it is not vile to say so.

Is this wise?

I love dogs more than people. I'm not a fan of the police but I watched the video and I thought they made the right call. Its a shame those dogs had an idiot as an owner. I even felt some admiration and respect for the officers!!

Prior to the slip lead coming off the officer holding the pole/slip lead was trying to hold the dog still so the armed officer could get a clear shot - it's at this point I refer to that no attempt was made to calm the dog and it was absolutely going to be shot.
I do agree the police officers made the right decision in those circumstances. Poor dogs so sad they didn't have a responsible owner though :-(

Why on earth would anyone expect vets to do something like that? The best equivalent I can think of is putting GPs in charge of prison and probation services to work out risk of (re)offending. Vets can help where behaviour is affected by pain or a medical condition but expecting them to police poor breeding, training etc is really not part of the job.

a 'public place' is anywhere the public have a right to be.

This includes your front garden (where there is an implied right of access to your door to deliver, to contact you, to come in and rescue you), and inside your car (ditto the rescue bit, not so much the delivery bit).

Realistically, people are going to fall foul of a strict lead and muzzle rule most commonly in remote rural areas, and in their own garden and car.

Where do you think the law would be policed most often and most practically?

Do you want a huge fine and criminal record because you took your dogs muzzle off whilst they were being car sick? Do you think that will be effective in reducing dog related attacks and fatalities?

I pick that example as this is how one owner of a exempted (ie illegal breed that has been through the court process to be added to the exempt register. Ie. a dog of a particular breed who has been proven not to be a danger) lost their dog - they took the muzzle off in the car so because she was vomiting and choking on it. They were caught, she died, they were fined.

Lead and muzzle laws will punish responsible owners and happy, healthy dogs who are not particularly a risk to anyone.

We have not got the infrastructure, the police presence, the specialist knowledge or the time, or funding, to create new legislation like this, and apply it in such a way that the people causing the problem would actually be impacted by it.

I'd like microchips to actually work, ie, one database with strict controls over who can edit it and information CANNOT be removed from it, ever.

Then an ownership trail can be formed from breeder to owner to owner and so on.

Then new legislation - if your dog is involved in an offence, you and everyone else in the chain of ownership are potentially liable for that, with diminishing responsibility as appropriate of course (so if you bred a nice puppy, sold to nice owners, can show evidence for this.. but then the wheels fell off their life and they died and the dog went to a rescue... you're in the clear. But if you sold on a dog you knew to be dangerous, to a family with no dog experience and lots of small kids... you're also in the shit!)

THAT would sharpen minds about both breeding and selling on/rehoming.

However we do not have that single database, currently chip details can be altered by a wide variety of people, chips fail and chips move and we have no way of forcing people to have puppies chipped before moving to their new owner (despite it being law that they should be).

I don't treat them like humans, but them being animals doesn't mean I don't cuddle them. And at the time of posting my first comment I was enjoying a nap time cuddle with them. I don't set them a place at the dining table or debate political matters with them but they are part of the family and are my dependents.

The relationship between humans and dogs is a very old one and isn't going to end any time soon.

Some of the responses on this thread have reiterated what I've been thinking for a while. I live on a different planet to most people here.

That was in response to MegaPanic.

The relationship between humans and dogs is a very old one and isn't going to end any time soon.

Aren't dogs descended from wolves ?

Yes

Modern dog and modern wolf are descended from a common ancestor, some 130'000 years ago.

So do not be tricked into thinking dogs are descended from modern wolf, they are not and they behave very differently.

We also did not domesticate wolves and turn them into dogs, by say, taking a wolf cub and raising it in captivity. Dogs effectively domesticated themselves, hanging around close to humans, eating their waste and providing them some benefit in alerting to danger/killing vermin.

Leads do not stop XL bullies if they decide to attack. I’ve seen it and the owner had no chance of staying upright or holding onto his dog . I cross the road if I come across one of them on a lead now.

That's interesting, I always assumed it was as you say, that humans domesticated wolves

I thought the earliest domesticated dogs were use to pull sledges and track prey in the northern latitudes. Latest DNA evidence and all that ?