Two dogs shot in London by police

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I’m usually very empathetic and recently even posted on an animal testing post but I just can’t find any compassion in my heart for out of control and dangerous animals at the moment, it’s just getting ridiculous. I obviously feel for the owner who I hope gets some kind of mental support/ counselling.

It’s so confusing as I’m usually so compassionate, I guess having a small child and the number of dog attacks does something to your brain? I hate walking past Bullies with my baby in the pram. Even normal dogs I’m starting to get very hesitant about. For context I usually cry if I step on a silver worm in the bathroom so this is a very strange reaction for me.

Interested to hear what other dog owning/ non dog owning people think. Also the government are going to have to step in at some point right?

I have said this many times but the bully xl breed needs banning! They are capable of so much damage!
More and more people think it’s ok to let dogs run at others off lead when in public parks! They need designated dog areas away from others!!!

ALL DOGS ARE DANGEROUS
if in the wrong environment, wrong owner, if dog is in pain.

Any dog is a potential weapon. Dogs are not an accessory they are sentient.

there needs to be a push for responsible ownership, similar to any weapon really. Dogs need a lot of exercise and stimulation.

@Boomboom22 the rescue centre I work for would not have rehomed those dogs. All dogs are assessed thoroughly on arrival and, if deemed suitable for rehoming, most of our dogs are not rehomed to people with young children. If dogs need training, we provide extensive training programmes and if, after this, they are still deemed unsuitable for rehoming, we either keep them as long term residents at the centre or they are occasionally fostered by staff. Sadly, in certain cases we have no choice but to PTS humanely. As a previous poster said, some of these poor dogs stood no chance from birth.

OK so any open space here we're talking just of 78000 sq km bar private gardens fields with crops on and a few other places. Who the hell is going to police/enforce this? Laws have to be enforceable. It's not workable surely limiting it to public parks and similar high streets, shops, around schools, cafes is much more realistic and enforceable? No dog areas and areas where dogs should be in leads also needs to be better enforced. 25 + years ago I used to live in a city where we had a lovely big children's play area and dogs weren't allowed in it but many parents brought their dogs in some on leads and others running around no one dod anything to stop it.

English law has managed for centuries to define various words. I can't see "public space" being too much of an issue. Admittedly it may not be to everyones liking. But learning to suck things up is a step towards adulthood.

A space the public have access to. It's not quantum physics

Exactly. I see this as the only workable solution as the other things people are talking about ie banning certain breeds or policing the breeders or making dog training courses mandatory will simply be ignored by the types of owners like this thread is about, and the manpower to enforce any of these just isn’t there.

This, compared to other solutions offered is much more enforceable, although still difficult.
It is very easy to spot if a dog is on a lead and/or muzzled. It can be done instantly and from a distance. I think muzzling is more important than the lead for obvious reasons.

An instant, on the spot fine for failing to comply, and make at it large one. Caught a second time- much stiffer punishment.

I also don’t see much difference to the pro gun movement in the US. Some there will argue that guns are a way of life, and the problems stem from bad ownership, and also that responsible gun owners pose no threat. Fact is, just like guns, people own dogs because they want to, not because they need them, with the obvious exception of some working dogs ie sheepdogs and service dogs.

Fact is, just like guns, people own dogs because they want to
Yes, it's a hobby not a necessity.

My last dog came from a small independent rescue, when you adopt from them you pay above the average because all theirs dogs a nd you are supported by a dedicated behavourist. We wanted to adopt a 41.6kg Foxhound we were sat down by the behavourist and had it explained to us in words of one syllable what owning a big dog entailed. That as owners our job was to keep the dog and the public safe, he had to go to on going training, be kept on a lead unless in a private field and understand that if anything happened as he was big it would always be viewed as our and his fault. We were taught about body language and the ladder of aggression. We were not first time dog owners but the rescue insisted that everyone taking a dog from them had to do this and if you didn't you wouldn't get one of their dogs. Lots of people thought it was too draconian but I felt reassured
He was a big softy, loved kids and everyone except drunk people. He was taught never to approach any one unless we okayed it. When children approached him he would sit and listen entranced by them talking to him but I never took my eye off him when out as he was big enough to even inadvertently knock a child or old person over.
People need to be taught that having a big dog comes with responsibilities and if they can't or won't understand that they shouldn't be allowed to have them

Any dog is a potential weapon
Very true....in the sense that a pea shooter and an AK-47 are all weapons
(I know which one I'd rather go up against)

You haven't answered my question who is going to enforce this? Where I live as I said above there is just shy of 78000 square km of public space ok we have some core paths but not many. Laws only work if they are enforceable and sensible. Isn't it better to look at areas where there are large number of people e.g. public parks in urban areas and introduce restrictions there which are more likely to be enforceable.
Im about to walk my dogs I can guarantee I wont meet anyone so if it was a legal requirement for me to muzzle my dogs and I know Im not going to meet anyone I might decide fuck it Im not going to bother because who is going to report me? Im not saying I would do this but I suspect that this is what many dog owners will think especially in very rural areas with the right to roam.

I don't know about dog behaviour and bites, so maybe somebody can answer for me because I've been wondering about this.

1- those were huge dogs. If they'd attacked wouldn't there be serious injuries? Because articles I read this morning said the woman they attacked didn't need to go to the hospital. When I see other news stories they have lots of stitches and look really bad.
I remember being bitten by a poodle as a child. Well more of a nip really, apparently it was warning me because I walked up behind it and stroked it and gave it a fright. That didn't leave me needing stitches but it's a tiny dog and didn't actually try to attack me, so not sure if that's the norm or it other news stories with terrible injuries are more the norm.

2- In the video, when the man is holding them, they were really barking and acting quite scarily, I'd have been petrified if it were me there... but at some points they could have bitten if they'd wanted to, why didn't they? Were they the whole "bark worse than his bite" thing? The video is really horrible! All the shouting, barking, then the ending, it just looked to me (never owned a dog so don't know their behaviour) that it was a high stress situation and any dog would have been barking the same way lots of humans would have been/were shouting and screaming.

I was speaking to a friend about it this morning and asked as she's a dog owner, but she wasn't sure. I see lots of these dogs nowadays and they worry me especially when I'm with DC since children seem to be attacked most often.

You haven't answered my question who is going to enforce this?

Well obviously we'd need to set up a body whose main aim is the enforcement of laws. A big step I know. But since the end now justifies the means that's OK surely ?

Irresponsible owners are the problem, not the dogs.
However, if the massive breeds, capable of inflicting serious injury and death were banned/restricted, at least the idiots would only have access to the equivalent of a needle rather than a machete.
Could this be enforced with licensing and training? In a similar way to driving…….lessons, test, tax, insurance? It wouldn’t 100% eliminate the problem, you still get unlicensed and uninsured criminals driving around. But it would surely help. And the expense would hopefully put off many who are unwilling and unable to put the effort and resources into being a responsible owner.

No there won't be.

It will be the same, because irresponsible owners won't care. Do you this k they will magically start picking up? Do you think dogs only shit in the park?

Only this morning, my local FB group has burst into life when someone posted a (very detailed) description of a serial dog turd abandoner. Judging by the replies (and varied descriptions of other similar scum) it's an intractable problem.

"An instant, on the spot fine for failing to comply, and make at it large one."
Who's divvying out this large fine? The police? Dog wardens? Park keeper (if they even still exist?)
Do we really want the police to devote the enormous amount of time and effort that would be required to fining people on the spot walking their dogs without muzzles in every public space in the UK? Also lets be realistic I take my dog to a public park on a Sunday afternoon with a muzzle on and I see 3 people who's dogs haven't got one on and no issues them with a large fine and I see it again and agin I might think one day why should I muzzle my dog because no one enforces it?
As we know from frequent comments on here no one enforces the fines for picking up dog poo hence so many complain about how its on every pavement/in every park.

You're an idiot. You and people like you shouldn't be allowed have dogs and you shouldn't be anywhere near kids. Cuddly babies my arse.

Where the money coming from?
We have a NHS beyond on its knees due to lack of funding people are dying on waiting lists. Our education system ditto. We have a housing crisis and you want to channel money into enforcing dog muzzles in every inch of public space in the UK? How may people do you think it will take to do this? Do you genuinely think this is best use of public funds?

Dogs' parks are not going to solve it. A dog goes when she needs to go.

I'm always happy to offer a spare baggie if I see someone not picking up, but only If it's someone who looks approachable. I wouldn't dream of doing it to a certain type of male with a bully type dog.

It's great that the rescue acted like this but I would say they are few and far between. Really who needs a 40+Kg dog who can kill someone, what is the purpose of it? I know you are rescuing it so I understand that is different. Why do people who have a choice by these massive dogs, it's just ridiculous and unfair on the dog unless you have lots of land or are prepared to walk for longe periods every day. I think no dogs over 10kg should be allowed. No-one needs a big dog, they might like one but that is totally different.

@MegaManic you sound mad 🤦🏻‍♀️

For the same reasons you see people every day not wearing seatbelts, using phones when driving, speeding but you don't (I assume) feel a need to copy them. 9/10 times you wouldn't get caught, but if you do it is a major inconvenience.

I do not agree with muzzling every dog. A straight out ban for the larger/stronger breeds with the same significant consequences is needed.

I suppose the loved one of the people killed and maimed by dogs every year might think it's worth the money. But then who gives a shit about them - tough luck I guess. I wondered if you would geel the same if your child's face was ripped off.
More important that the idiots have their massive dogs because they all feel entitled to them.

Who's divvying out this large fine

Yes the police. If you speed in your car, get pulled by the police after being clicked at 80 you will be getting points and/or a fine- you won’t get very far trying to argue it. It doesn’t erase the problem and people will still speed, but it’s a deterrent, most people comply and it helps reduce the harm overall.

I understand what you’re saying about being in the middle of no-where with your dog, but at the end of the day you have to draw the line somewhere. I’m about to go for a walk with ds (who is terrified of dogs) to a large, sparsely populated area of woodland and I think dogs should be muzzled there. The dog still can exercise.

It seems like the dog owners on this thread aren’t really offering any solutions that will work, basically saying well nothing can be done let’s just carry on as we are. Although what I’m arguing isn’t perfect, it will at least do something to address the growing amount of attacks we are seeing.

any particular reason why? Because I don't let dangerous animal nap with my toddler?