Page 18 | Anyone watching the Grand National?

PinkLemonadee · 2023-04-15T16:06:50+00:00

Just put it on to see protesters being dragged off the track. Feel bad for the horses in the ring, it looks warm and there's so many people about.

gillefc82 · 15/04/2023 23:15

Let’s get real here, events such as the National, Cheltenham etc won’t be stopped by a handful of protestors, in the same way the Just Stop Oil protestors who targeted Premier League football matches last season haven’t achieved anything.

Ultimately as is so often the case, it all comes down to money. Until the sponsors and brand partners no longer get a return on their investment when backing and promoting these things and until the general public in their numbers stop attending and putting money into betting on these events, nothing is going to change.

SirChenjins · 15/04/2023 23:18

I don’t think anyone is expecting today’s protests to stop these events. What they do is raise awareness and get people talking about the cruelty involved, and start to shift attitudes as so many other priests have done over the years. Nothing changes overnight, but changes for the better do happen and this will change too in time.

SirChenjins · 15/04/2023 23:19

Priests? Protests

Mindovermatter247 · 15/04/2023 23:21

Most of these people just like be part of a cause, cause havoc, they have absolutely no interest in the cause whatsoever.

Rosewaterblues · 15/04/2023 23:23

I think it’s a safe bet that there are quite a few priests at the races too SirChenjins 🙂

SirChenjins · 15/04/2023 23:24

I imagine so!

Maverickess · 15/04/2023 23:40

Rosewaterblues · 15/04/2023 22:08

That's brilliant that your horse is happy and enjoying his retirement. My horses live out 24/7 in a small herd and have the choice whether to come in or out in inclement weather and generally choose to stay out.

Horses though have as many individual quirks and characters as humans. Thoroughbreds and former champions like the magnificent Istabraq for example are still feisty and impatient to run, and quite a handful even at thirty-one years old. The best chasers are hugely powerful athletes with massive scope and range, some are perfectly happy to be rugged and put out to pasture or hacked out by teenagers, but others are still very lively and full of vigour and like to work eg Our Vic didn't take to retirement so got a job teaching young jockeys to ride. Not all of them would be happy loafing in a field.

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My point though really is they are that way because they've been bred and trained to be, had they not been they wouldn't be (if they existed that is) stood in a field or in the wild longing to go around Ascot, they'd just be living in the moment.
We've created them to be like this, despite the toll it takes on their overall health - I'm not sure that's fair any more. I feel the same about police horses etc - they 'enjoy' it because it's pretty much all they know.
I do absolutely believe that we have a debt to these horses (well all animals really) that we've created with selective breeding, to try and keep them as happy as possible and absolutely with some horses, that means keeping on working and doing because that's their mindset, but I do feel that if they had been born and not trained and left to their own devices, being a horse would be enough.
The greats get to do whatever it is that suits them best, retire, continue to race in some form, babysitting youngsters or being retrained to another discipline, but I've seen many that have done just ok, or not made the grade rehomed to totally unsuited owners because they're cheap and need a home, everyone thinks it's great until the relatively novicey new owner can't even lead them across the yard because the total change blows their mind and they are confused and stressed - alongside the starting of them far too young, this imo is one of the biggest problems and the industry as a whole needs to take more responsibility for those horses.

Don't get me wrong, I kept my horse with conventional methods and thought I gave him the best I could and that he was just a 'character', but, I see a different horse now, one who is just a horse, I doubt very much if he's stood now wishing he was flying at a 1m40 fence like we used to, but because we did it for so long I have no doubt if his legs (and mine!) Were up to it, he'd do it again if I asked, but not because he longs to, because he was trained to do what I ask.
I also think horses are adrenaline junkies (spring grass anyone 😂) and any 'work' that induces an adrenaline rush will be something they get excited over, they're programmed for that adrenaline rush to keep them alive by running away from predators and pretty much any competitive equine sport uses that.

I honestly don't know how I feel about that, on the one hand I loved it and the connection with the horse I was riding, but on the other I don't know if we should be doing it at all for our entertainment.

Rosewaterblues · 16/04/2023 00:17

Maverickess · 15/04/2023 23:40

My point though really is they are that way because they've been bred and trained to be, had they not been they wouldn't be (if they existed that is) stood in a field or in the wild longing to go around Ascot, they'd just be living in the moment.
We've created them to be like this, despite the toll it takes on their overall health - I'm not sure that's fair any more. I feel the same about police horses etc - they 'enjoy' it because it's pretty much all they know.
I do absolutely believe that we have a debt to these horses (well all animals really) that we've created with selective breeding, to try and keep them as happy as possible and absolutely with some horses, that means keeping on working and doing because that's their mindset, but I do feel that if they had been born and not trained and left to their own devices, being a horse would be enough.
The greats get to do whatever it is that suits them best, retire, continue to race in some form, babysitting youngsters or being retrained to another discipline, but I've seen many that have done just ok, or not made the grade rehomed to totally unsuited owners because they're cheap and need a home, everyone thinks it's great until the relatively novicey new owner can't even lead them across the yard because the total change blows their mind and they are confused and stressed - alongside the starting of them far too young, this imo is one of the biggest problems and the industry as a whole needs to take more responsibility for those horses.

Don't get me wrong, I kept my horse with conventional methods and thought I gave him the best I could and that he was just a 'character', but, I see a different horse now, one who is just a horse, I doubt very much if he's stood now wishing he was flying at a 1m40 fence like we used to, but because we did it for so long I have no doubt if his legs (and mine!) Were up to it, he'd do it again if I asked, but not because he longs to, because he was trained to do what I ask.
I also think horses are adrenaline junkies (spring grass anyone 😂) and any 'work' that induces an adrenaline rush will be something they get excited over, they're programmed for that adrenaline rush to keep them alive by running away from predators and pretty much any competitive equine sport uses that.

I honestly don't know how I feel about that, on the one hand I loved it and the connection with the horse I was riding, but on the other I don't know if we should be doing it at all for our entertainment.

Show quote history

I totally respect your opinions on these issues Maverickess despite seeing things a little differently.

My horses have never competed and are heavy set, fairly unflappable cobby types, and they are much happier working generally, not in a nervy adrenaline-fed way, but they like the routine, the attention, getting out and seeing new bits of the countryside, and they are curious about what is going on in the yard. Funnily enough the only time I find them a little antsy is after their long summer break when they have been turned out in the same pasture for six weeks consecutively where I think they become a bit “agoraphobic”.

As I said previously, the life of a feral horse in the wild can be pretty brutal having to travel for miles and sometimes fight for every morsel of food and drink and stand up to the elements, parasites, predators etc.

And our modern day horses, whether we like it or not, are domesticated, which means they have lived alongside us for centuries. And those of us who are privileged enough to live and work with them every day are uniquely positioned to learn a lot about their habits and preferences and we get to form a respectful partnership with them which I think does develop to the extent that we are able to give them as natural a life as possible for animals that have been domesticated for thousands of years..

ohsuzannah · 16/04/2023 00:23

Enfys1982 · 15/04/2023 17:16

Two horses have already died this week at Aintree. One only this afternoon. It’s fucking cruel and people need to wake up. The irony of worrying about the horses in the paddock but being forced over Beachers Brook is laughable.

Quite! I have no patience with protesters, but I've always hated the Grand national. It's the height of cruelty 😡

Rosula · 16/04/2023 00:29

Prescottdanni123 · 15/04/2023 19:16

@Rosula

So they say. There is no telling what they might have done in the heat of the moment.

The point still stands that the delays can't have helped matters. Saying "Well the horses would have already been stressed" isn't a valid argument. Being made even more stressed than they already are never helps anyone, especially highly strung animals like horses

It was around 14 minutes' delay. Realistically how much difference would that have made? If a horse is that highly strung it really should not be racing at all.

Rosula · 16/04/2023 00:38

Scouserlicious · 15/04/2023 19:46

Locals now helping the police get rid of the protesters

I had to laugh at this. I grew up 1 mile away from the Aintree racecourse and have been to more nationals than I can remember. Scousers are very passionate about it. Also, Aintree is not a place full of snowflakes. They will be apoplectic with rage, believe me.

I have visions of middle-class ex-private school 20-somethings getting the shock of their life when an angry Scouser comes out "helping the police get rid of the protesters" and they are dragged away by their hair whilst the police stand by and let them. Also, nice to see the police carrying them away, in contrast, to how spineless London police deal with them.

So the locals had a lovely time defending animal cruelty and helping rich horse breeders. Would they be equally active in defending the rights of fox hunters?

Rosula · 16/04/2023 00:48

Rosewaterblues · 15/04/2023 20:06

By running fast a horse is doing what nature intended it to do (especially Arabs and thoroughbreds). A horse is a prey animal which means it was designed to run in short bursts just fast and far enough to get away from a predator. And racing has enhanced that natural tendency. Just as dressage had enhances the short steps a stallion makes when coming from speed to a standstill and approaching and herding his mares.

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Nature didn't intend horses to run fast along a tight track with a large number jumping awkward fences, hedges and ditches together, saddled up and with a man on their backs hitting them as they run.

Rosula · 16/04/2023 00:54

viques · 15/04/2023 20:23

Why aren’t they out protesting about puppy farms? Poorly bred animals being sold on Gumtree? People dumping unwanted animals in plastic bags? Untrained dogs attacking people in parks? Kittens abandoned on the sides of roads, in back gardens, outside vets? I bet if they put their minds and money towards it tried they could help eliminate a lot of the real cruelty that animals are subjected to.

They almost certainly are. The fact that they were at Aintree yesterday doesn't prevent them protesting against other types of cruelty, you know.

Rosula · 16/04/2023 01:02

JudgeJ · 15/04/2023 20:56

Or just electrified, if they then climb it's their own fault, cretins.

Show quote history

It could be quite a laugh when drunken racegoers stumble against them also. But maybe no so funny when scared loose horses run into them?

DrPrunesqualler · 16/04/2023 01:06

ZeroWorshipHere · 15/04/2023 22:53

One in the national

Show quote history

Here

Dithyramb · 16/04/2023 01:10

Enfys1982 · 15/04/2023 17:16

Two horses have already died this week at Aintree. One only this afternoon. It’s fucking cruel and people need to wake up. The irony of worrying about the horses in the paddock but being forced over Beachers Brook is laughable.

Yup.

Farmerama1 · 16/04/2023 01:18

Yes, I’ve watched this race since I was a child but FFS, three horse deaths at one meeting? It should be changed to make it safer or stopped.

DrPrunesqualler · 16/04/2023 01:21

MN
please check out change.org and sign the petitions against this
There are others aswell on animal cruelty, hare coursing etc.
Have your say

WomanFromTheNorth · 16/04/2023 01:23

Rosula · 16/04/2023 00:48

Nature didn't intend horses to run fast along a tight track with a large number jumping awkward fences, hedges and ditches together, saddled up and with a man on their backs hitting them as they run.

Show quote history

This

AutumnColours9 · 16/04/2023 01:45

Disgusting event. How can anyone enjoy a race where the animals literally die during it.

AnyaMarx · 16/04/2023 02:04

Horse racing is responsible for many many deaths because too many horses are bred for bugger all reward. So many end up in the knackers yard .

I dont watch racing , I don't bet on it either . It is cruel .

MissingMoominMamma · 16/04/2023 02:06

Florenz · 15/04/2023 17:27

Why don't the people who hate horse racing just not watch it, attend it or bet on it?

We don’t, and yet horses still die…

AnyaMarx · 16/04/2023 02:09

Some colleagues of mine had a race horse - a syndicate.

The horse they told me went to "the glue factory " as it stopped winning.

I was disgusted and disappointed. I love horses .

They are spiritual creatures, and the be worked with them when I had depression, they gave me a reason to get up . They're amazing animals and they deserve better than this

I would love a horse of my own . So sad to think so many end up in the meat market. Racing is cruel . Only a few survive it .

AnyaMarx · 16/04/2023 02:23

The entire industry is cruel . It's not just horses that die in race courses.

My SIL took on a race horse destined for the meat market . Beautiful thoroughbred. She called him Nigel . He had a good long life with her .

So many horses are bred for racing that end up sold for meat . Do the research.

AnyaMarx · 16/04/2023 02:27

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• NEWS SPORT VOICES CULTURE LIFESTYLE TRAVEL PREMIUM

Voices
Evidence of cruelty to race horses continues to mount – how can we justify this as ‘sport’?
Compelling video footage filmed by Animal Aid shows that so-called ‘welfare’ rules have been ignored at one of the UK’s biggest abattoirs – enough is enough

Chas Newkey-Burden
Monday 19 July 2021 14:04

At least 2,275 horses have died on British race courses since 2007
(Reuters)

Sometimes an awful thing is so awful that we can’t accept it. We go into denial or simply look the other way. With horse racing, I think we’re at the stage now where many people understand intellectually how cruel and exploitative the industry is, but we grew up thinking it was normal. Emotionally, it’s hard for some people to come out solidly against something they’ve always accepted.
As an animal liberationist, I’m free to say that I think horse racing is horrific. On BBC One tonight, people will be able to see some of the darker sides of the industry for themselves. A detailed Panorama investigation has found that 4,000 former racehorses have been sent to slaughterhouses in Britain and Ireland since the beginning of 2019.

Compelling video footage filmed by Animal Aid shows that so-called “welfare” rules have been ignored at one of the UK’s biggest abattoirs. Just as with the slaughter of farmed animals, the rules seem to go out of the window.
Regulations state that horses should not be killed in sight of each other but in four days of filming this rule was broken dozens of times. The slaughterhouse employees are supposed to make every effort to ensure a rapid death but the footage shows that often the deaths were far from quick. Some horses were not stunned first. The reality of what goes on is unpalatable. This is part of the problem. The reason there is not enough scrutiny is that, all too often, it’s so painful to see what really happens.

Professor Daniel Mills, a veterinary behavioural specialist from the University of Lincoln, who has seen the footage, said: “If that’s representative of how they’re being killed, then we’ve got a really serious problem.”
Some of the racehorses killed in Britain while the covert cameras were filming had been transported from Ireland, travelling more than 350 miles by road and sea, often while carrying injuries.

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Tonight’s documentary is sure to shock viewers but it will only reveal part of the cruelty of the industry. At least 2,275 horses have died on British race courses since 2007, on top of all the retired horses that were slaughtered. In 2014, there was a rare moment of candour from the industry, when Grand National champion jockey Ruby Walsh shrugged off the death of a horse after a fall, saying: “Horses are horses. You can replace a horse.”
Last February, a photo of leading trainer Gordon Elliott sitting on a dead horse caused outrage. Elliott was quickly suspended from the sport until September this year because he’d committed the worst crime imaginable: revealing what the industry really thinks of the horses it exploits.
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As Panorama will show, horses too old or exhausted to keep racing are taken to slaughterhouses. I’ve spoken to eye witnesses who say the horses often scream as they are taken into the abattoirs – they know what’s about to happen to them. Sometimes these horses are driven to laboratories first so that scientists can perform cruel experiments on them before they’re killed. Remember all this next time a racing fan tells you that they love horses.
One bit of positive news is that not all horses die on courses, in slaughterhouses or laboratories. Some get to have a retirement at an animal sanctuary. I volunteer at a horse sanctuary and most of the horses have come from unhappy situations, neglected and abandoned in some form. The most distressed in my experience are those who came from the horse racing industry. They exhibit a unique anxiety and lack of trust that suggests they have been treated cruelly.

It’s rarely a happy ending. Thousands of horses die on the race course, thousands more are killed in the slaughterhouses or on laboratory tables. The “lucky ones” may live out their final years with lifelong injuries and mental trauma.
So, let’s be real: what is all this death and suffering really for? It’s so the betting industry can grab money from people who are too desperate, gullible or bewildered to know a scam when they see one, often people with addictions and mental health problems. Horses are being abused and killed so a few humans can grift money out of lots of other humans.

It’s a truly dark and awful situation. No wonder we struggle to take it in. What was normal for us to witness while growing up has turned out to be something our generation needs to stamp out. For the sake of horses and humans alike, it is time to wake up and ban this wicked, thieving racket.
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