Anyone watching the Grand National?

[PinkLemonadee]

Just put it on to see protesters being dragged off the track. Feel bad for the horses in the ring, it looks warm and there's so many people about.

No! 3 horses have died

@CremeEggThief

And as I replied to you earlier, protesting is brilliant about bringing about change, but not if it endangers the lives of both humans and animals.

I hate horse racing, but I do not condone what those protestors did. The stress from the delays could quite well have contributed to the falls that happened during the grand national.

So far . But how many will have been injured to the extent they need euthanised later ?

Yes, we need to hone down on human interaction with animals. We need to live with animals in their natural environment and stop trying to bend nature to our will. I hope this is a groundswell movement for the following:

• Ban hunting - I know its been banned, but people still 'gather for hunting' like trail-hunting.
• Ban 'hunter-gathering' worldwide.
• Ban fishing unless it is for food.
• Ban puppy farms.
• Ban poultry farms - all that throwing of the live male chicks into a grinder.

We don't need eggs, milk or meat. The land can be left to grow pulses and beans and organic stuff which does not harm animals. Re-wilding of natural food sources is the answer. Then we can learn to interact with nature again and only kill what we want to eat and only when we need to eat.

The stress from the delays could quite well have contributed to the falls that happened during the grand national.

The most humane thing to do then would have been to call it off altogether.

The fact 'they' didn't speaks volumes.

Can I ask why you would ban trail hunting? When it is just following a human runner with a scent?

I disapprove of anyone hunting on a trail. It is bound to lead to an animal somewhere - a fox normally. A dog is a natural animal and once it gets the scent it will follow the other dogs and its masters. It is like hunter-gatherers. They may gather before a hunt, but hunting is carried out. the only difference is in Africa they do it for food.

There's been a few comments like this about horses 'left' in fields, no rugs coats and no stimulation.
My horse is the happiest and most relaxed he's ever been since being permanently turned out in a field with a small herd.
They are checked daily, have water checked and topped (and will drink out of a puddle instead when it's fresh and clean!) And the field poo picked/fencing checked. They get the farrier 4 times a year on average and are wormed according to worm counts and have an annual vet check when vaccs are due.
Two are not rugged because they don't need it, they grow adequate coats for the climate (mine is actually 3/4 tb) and have natural shelter as well as a structure. We feed hay in winter if they seem hungry (using their energy to keep warm and therefore start to lose condition when there's nothing in the grass) and they do have a really large field with hilly parts, flat areas and some different ground to walk over.
They are really low maintenance and the change in my horse, even since not rugging him and allowing his body's natural mechanisms to work with regards to eating almost constantly, losing and gaining weight naturally with the seasons and the grass being constantly grazed, but not over grazed so there's much less risk of laminitis or colic in spring, has been amazing.
He's happy, relaxed and more importantly, healthy and a different horse from the bolshy, grumpy and most importantly, stressed stabled horse I had for years. We haven't had a vet except for the annual routine for the 5 years he's a been out, it was at least twice a year for laminitis or colic, injury or a virus etc in the 10 years previous.
I always thought he loved his stable because he wanted to be in as soon as he saw me, he was routine bound and got stressed when he was expecting something to happen. He doesn't have that now.
It's taken me back to that feeling of someone who just loved looking at these magnificent animals and being around them instead of being all caught up in what we 'should' do to supposedly enjoy our horses.

They need to be managed but managed well and with relatively little intervention, they can thrive. None of them have vices (my horse used to box walk, bang his door, another crib, another weave)

Compare that to a racehorse cooped up in a stable 20 odd hours a day, clipped, high energy food and restricted forage, restricted turn out, little opportunity to experience natural herd behaviour, high impact exercise to make sure they're super fit and rugged. I think many people are 'schooled' into thinking that that is well cared for, because it costs a lot more than the way my horse lives, but it's about as far from natural as you can get.

But, I'm still cynical about the motivation not only of the protestors, but of many others claiming to have animal welfare at heart - I bet in 6 months time there'll be posts about fireworks and their effect on horses (and other animals) and I would reckon that many making those claims and some of these strongly worded comments here under different user names will be defending their 'fun' of having fireworks and any issues faced by the animals are the issue of the owners. Animal welfare is a drum to beat for some.

All I can say is that in the racing stables I worked in as a student, the trainers went to huge lengths, and I mean really meticulous measures, to look after each individual horse and match it's training routine and living conditions to it's individual temperament and that is something that very few farm animals for example get to experience. The horses had access to physiotherapy, top equine dentists and farriers, the best of feed and really excellent veterinary care, and most important of all, really experienced and dedicated lads and lasses who looked after and rode them. Yes racing is a business , and those facilities and services would not exist without the business aspect.

I'm not defending the Grand National particularly btw, I'm not interested in it as a race, the size of the field, or in the betting. But the fact is that protesters over the years managed to get the height of the fences lowered in the National and other NH races, and that has meant that it is run at a faster speed, which means that a different sort of confirmation of horse is run in it which are lighter and faster, rather than the old sturdy chasers with good bones, which makes the modern chaser more vulnerable to injury imho.

I do agree with the general point that too many racehorses are bred overall.

@vera99 that's absolutely precious , it's so lovely to hear of people like you actually acting about them

@vera99 caring about them ❤️

Animal welfare is a drum to beat for some.
Too true. I know a couple who run a local Facebook group. They have all the right credentials, university educated, one is a journalist, the other a psychologist. Always raising funds for animal welfare. But they have a plastic lawn round the back and filled in the 200 year old fresh water fed pond by the side to allow a sweeping drive round the front of their house. All to add money when they come to sell.

@Maverickess my two ex racers are the same although I do rug in the winter , one hates the stable so much he would break out in a sweat within ten minutes of being in , he was head shy , nervous of even being stroked , the livery I was on insisted on them coming in overnight from 4 in the winter so I was lucky enough to find two paddocks , he's a different boy living out 24/7 ... we aren't gonna convince the pro racers the pro national posters on here despite seeing the difference in our own horses sadly

❤️

That's brilliant that your horse is happy and enjoying his retirement. My horses live out 24/7 in a small herd and have the choice whether to come in or out in inclement weather and generally choose to stay out.

Horses though have as many individual quirks and characters as humans. Thoroughbreds and former champions like the magnificent Istabraq for example are still feisty and impatient to run, and quite a handful even at thirty-one years old. The best chasers are hugely powerful athletes with massive scope and range, some are perfectly happy to be rugged and put out to pasture or hacked out by teenagers, but others are still very lively and full of vigour and like to work eg Our Vic didn't take to retirement so got a job teaching young jockeys to ride. Not all of them would be happy loafing in a field.

@Rosewaterblues I think you accurately portray the fact thoroughbreds are not all
the same. They are, however, bred to race. I totally agree that smaller fences have altered what a “nstional” horse is. It’s altered the Gold Cup even more. 2 mile chasing is like a 5 furlong sprint over jumps. However I still love jumps racing. It’s supremely athletic. I do love to see an old chasing type but they are disappearing.

Racehorses bred from Arabians for centuries don’t forage. They have different needs. it’s ludicrous to think all horses are the same. Happy racehorses have personalities and like their routines. Some don’t like being in a paddock in a herd and can be bullied. The idea you can turn a thoroughbred back into something else is not sensible.

We also don’t over breed good horses. There’s a shortage of those in the uk. Most good ones reside in Ireland right now and are bred there. I want to see that quality here.

Glad you loved Our Vic. Fantastic horse.

I love to see the old legends TizerorFizz. I was lucky enough to see Thistlecrack and Smad Place in separate parades this year.

@CathyorClaire

I agree. I don't condone what the protestors did because that is not how you go about bringing change, but the horse's welfare should have come first. They knew that there would be an increased risk and they let it got ahead anyway.

@PooHeads

As you say, a lot of horses die in races. We don't need protestors increasing the risk these horses already face with their 'help'. Especially when there are plenty of other ways to campaign against horse racing that don't involve heaping even more stress on these animals. They became part of the problem today.

Protestors like this don't achieve much. If anything, they get animal rights activists a bad name because we all get tarred with the same brush.

One in the national

I hate horse racing and find it sickening that fans of the Grand National appear to be more upset about the protestors than the fact that a horse died again.

I love them - this is now "Season 3" and saw the vixen grow from a cub to a second season mother all on her own with the male fox to have done a runner (sounds familiar). She has a natal den under our decking and a second under a friendly neighbour's shed. I cured her and her daughter of last year of mange with meds from the South Essex Wildlife Hospital. She is an amazing mother and goes without looking after her kits. They love her to bits, and she feeds, cares, and cleans them - they even kiss ! Every day is a joy now as we watch them play and gambol in the sun which will last to the great dispersal at the end of summer when mum says right, I've brought you up now you must leave and find your own way in the world. They live in the shadows and own the night in our cities and many have short and brutish lives hated and misunderstood by many but loved by many too. They are like a dog with a cat brain and cleverer than both.

Observing and interacting with nature teaches us so much about the world, ourselves and the circle of life and how vicariously transient and cruel it can seem. To those who wish harm upon them, I have nothing but contempt.

What a wonderful username ! Once you do, there is absolutely no turning back... 🙏❤

Brilliant post!

DrPrunesqualler you make it sound like it is legal for jockeys to beat horses indiscriminately which is not the case at all. First of all the whip is not a whip it is a foam paddle and was designed with input from the RSPCA.

Secondly the number of times it is used is counted carefully by the stewards in charge of each race and over a certain amount (different in NH racing to flat) jockeys can receive a 28-day ban. These rules were recently revised to lessen the number and an independent Horse Welfare body was brought in to set the level with the British Horseracing Authority.

From a personal pov can I just add that if you are riding 450 kg animal at approaching 30 mph over jumps, with other horses and riders in close proximity, and your stirrups are very short, it is definitely helpful to have a whip to help steer and prevent accidents if a horse veers off course; they are not just used to encourage a horse to go faster in other words.

If you are riding a horse in an ordinary hack with a long leg in the stirrup and not sitting “up” above the saddle like a jockey in a jumping position, then it is possible to steer with your seat to a certain extent and of course with your leg aids but even in that situation a crop can be useful.