Clemmie Hooper Facing Midwifery Misconduct Hearing

[Nedmund]

I've not yet seen any other threads on this.

It's not yet clear why there's a heating but it would be interesting to read the decision by the Nursing and Midwifery Council when it's posted online. The hearing ends 8th March.

I'm wondering if the racism she trolled with played out in her work?

But midwives not believing black women is what contributes to the fact they have much higher morbidity and mortality than white women. If I was black I wouldn’t want Clemmie looking after me and sort of thing the nmc will consider. It’s not a legal court, the threshold for finding against someone is much, much lower.

I should say it’s not a criminal court probably rather than it not being a legal court. Though no finding has any legal implication I guess. I’ve been to quite a few nmc hearings (giving evidence) and it is very much like a criminal court with barristers, etc.

I think these are exactly the sort of posts Clemmie made on Tattle!

@imlateasusual I suppose we'll agree to differ. I think it was racist. But it's up to the tribunal to decide what they think.

I personally think anyone who uses the phrase 'playing the race card' is racist

Just to clarify, I think it is very wrong what she said and I wouldn't want her looking after me either. I wouldn't be surprised if she's a racist either. But the NWM will look at the whole context. IIRC Candice said in the interview that she felt the white women in the ward got better treatment than her. She didn't back it up with anything, it was a belief she had (which of course may or may not be true) and in response to this Clemmie said the race card comment (which of course is wrong). I would be surprised if any type of action would be taken for this in isolation, but we don't know the full wider picture. I do wonder if because they are both fairly high profile online figures if they will try to make more of an example out of her.

Clemmie has admitted using a racist term though. That’s not for the panel to consider. The intent is the issue and it’s so difficult to prove in a full blown criminal case, let alone something like this.

It’s the sort of dismissive term that sits in the same place as the midwives who don’t check black women because they’re not listening to them properly, or believing their pain levels are accurate. It’s the same root of the issues that black women have accessing the right healthcare.

The NMC standard of proof is balance of probabilities so lower than that of a criminal court.

I find/found MOD awful and followed her because she was so awful - her greed and acquisitiveness was revolting to me.

I was also pretty shocked at what she did on Tattle. Weird trolling your husband!

However I did not know until I read comments about what she said that it was racist to say what she said. Ie accusing CB of being aggressive. I am in NO way defending her but I am just saying I genuinely had no idea that was 'a thing'.

I know this now and am glad I do, but when this all came out however many years ago I was surprised as it was news to me.

Having said that I shall be googling to see what happens with the NMC as I think she (and her awful husband) are revolting and I always hated the way she used her (one day a week) midwifery as a sort of flag to show how great she was.

But the standard is lower. The stakes are probably lower. Her representation is Union and the panel is there to make sure professional standards are upheld. Intent is so complex an area that both sides would probably far rather leave it alone if she’s admitted the other charges.

In context, accusing someone you have publicly shown sympathy for, over an issue that is inextricably connected with race, of ‘playing the race card’, is despicable. I’m not sure what barrier those who think this isn’t racist have for something to qualify, but it dismissed and belittles the legitimate concerns of a woman of colour.

@Leftoverssandwich it is despicable and dismissing the concerns/issues that CB had. But I'm not sure that from a professional POV that one comment would be enough to get her struck off, as some posters are suggesting.

The husband is truly atrocious too

I am not remotely familiar with the NMC’s proceedings so don’t know how strictly they come down on this stuff. But I suspect you’re right. We’ll find out I guess. I can certainly understand someone feeling uncomfortable with her as their midwife though, which must be the sort of professional reputation the NMC is concerned with.

There's a book called 'People Like Her' which I'm fairly certain is heavy influenced by Clemmie Hooper's story and a bit of Mother Pukka's too.
Reading it all felt very familiar and it did make great entertainment!

GraziaDaily updated their article with this yesterday:

“The fourth charge is that Mrs Hooper intended her comments to be racially motivated – Mrs Hooper did not admit this and on Friday the panel cleared her of that charge.”

There are four allegations against her? Very interested to read the outcome now.

How do you prove intentional racism of that kind without someone admitting to it anyway? The excuse can always be it was taken out of context or not what they meant. I had a colleague who made comments to a client to try to bribe them.
When the client complained, she said the client took it out of context and misunderstood therefore got away with it. Knowing the colleague, having worked along side her for a long time and having spoken to the client first hand myself, I have not one single doubt she did try to bribe her but how can you really prove intention in these cases unless it's clear as day?

Per Grazia:*Mrs Hooper admitted that as a registered midwife, between November 2018 and March 2019, under the pseudonym Alice in Wanderlust, she posted ‘one or more inappropriate comments on Tattle.Life’. She secondly admitted that those actions were intended to ‘undermine and humiliate’ the subject of one of her comments.

Mrs Hooper was also charged that her actions in a post as part of charge one were racially offensive and or discriminatory. The former mumfluencer accepted the charge but on the basis that she was ‘not aware at the time’ the term used was racially offensive or discriminatory but that as a result of subsequent training and learning now ‘understands it could be regarded as that’
The fourth charge is that Mrs Hooper intended her comments to be racially motivated – Mrs Hooper did not admit this and on Friday the panel cleared her of that charge.*

I really don't think she should be struck off over this. The baying for blood is worse than the crime.

’wanting someone to receive consequences for their racism is worse than the racism itself’ 🤡

I agree with the commenter. Yes, Clemmie behaved badly, but her punishment has been pretty complete, even before this hearing.

You don’t get to decide what level of racism is mild enough to not deserve consequences but ok

Neither do you. But obviously there should be consequences and obviously there have been ones. Prior to this and now. The reason this thread exists in the first place.

No, I wouldn't have said that. I just don't think she will be struck off and rightly so. The gleeful hand wringing is more about enjoying her downfall than anything else. People loved it in a rather ugly way. It's my impression that in this instance, concerns about racism are largely virtue signalling to hide the glee.

So you think racist midwives are ok then? I don't for a second think training will have helped if she was reading books and talking to a black woman first hand about her experience and still couldn't see it then. She was working in an area where she would have had black patients preciously. As much as we need to be about similarities, we need to balance that to cater to people's differences too. Did you know that black women generally have a narrower pelvis? If teaching is based on white women then black women are not necessarily birthing in the ways their bodies may need.

I think you really need to do your research into how racism can impact ethnic minorities receiving treatment.

This week I saw a black midwife's video on TikTok, where a manager told a junior or student midwife who had gone to them about a black patient's refusal of painkillers, that it was normal as black people don't like medicine. Apparently a black midwife overhead and checked on the patient only to find she was vomiting and was refusing because she couldn't keep anything down. All she needed was an anti-sickness injection so she could have painkillers. Yes, the junior member of staff should have conveyed the whole picture but imagine having someone more senior saying it's normal and dismissing investigating any further because she's black.

Imagine thinking race wasn't an issue within healthcare, that's a fairly mild scenario but it's why you shouldn't be dismissing black women and their experiences. It's why they're more likely to die. I have friends who have told me about the fact they are assumed to be unemployed, uneducated, on benefits, unmarried, etc.,
just because they were an ethnic minority. They were spoken to differently and fobbed off as it was assumed they didn't understand things. It's rooted in history and systemic racism that still exists. There are women out there who have to dress up to go to the GP knowing that even though they might want to go in some leggings and a t-shirt because they don't feel well, there's going to be a preconception for them if they do.

I understand this is one woman who fell from grace but I don't think she should be a midwife. That said, I also don't think she should be witch hunted forever either because she's only a small part of a wider issue.

So you think racist midwives are ok then?

Well obviously bloody not. Because that would make me a monster. Unsurprisingly I'm not. It's actually a bit scary to say when you think a public pillorying has gone far enough, when it has any relation whatsoever to racism - because guess what, people will say what you've said above about me. What I think is that at some point, there has to be a way back for people. I do not mean a way back to Instagram careers (I think her husband is an idiot, for the record), perhaps not even to remain in midwifery in her case, that will be for the NMC to decide, but a way back from being publicly denounced, and monstered across multiple websites and newspapers. If we say there's no way for her to make amends then what? She's just a person, a mother, a woman, someone's daughter etc who made a mistake. A bad one. But I don't know how people go on after such a fully public shaming. How do you learn anything from that, other than how to just stay alive.

I think you really need to do your research into how racism can impact ethnic minorities receiving treatment.

Again, my comments about this situation do not infer I have a lack of knowledge of this, you might actually be surprised if you knew me. But if you'd like to encourage other people to learn more, then I respectfully suggest you don't start sentences with 'I think you really need to...'

Imagine thinking race wasn't an issue within healthcare, that's a fairly mild scenario but it's why you shouldn't be dismissing black women and their experiences.

I can't imagine thinking that way, or dismissing black women or their experiences. My comments about this case do none of that. I can imagine some people do though, because sadly, as we know, there are many racist people both by intent and unconscious bias and those who just don't think or care about these things. It very much needs addressing. I'd like to think Clemmie's case would draw attention to this, but I suspect it won't, as I'm not sure the vast majority of people that comment about her actually care about the racism aspect. A lot do, but a lot just enjoy the downfall of another, some of it is positively gleeful.

I understand this is one woman who fell from grace but I don't think she should be a midwife. That said, I also don't think she should be witch hunted forever either because she's only a small part of a wider issue.

We agree here. My concern is the thoroughness of the witch hunt and the lack of any mercy whatsoever. I can't imagine living through that. There's a part of me that wishes I didn't have compassion for it. But I do. I'm surprising myself as I wasn't a fan of hers. But there we go.