Clemmie Hooper Facing Midwifery Misconduct Hearing

[Nedmund]

I've not yet seen any other threads on this.

It's not yet clear why there's a heating but it would be interesting to read the decision by the Nursing and Midwifery Council when it's posted online. The hearing ends 8th March.

I'm wondering if the racism she trolled with played out in her work?

I wouldn’t want her as my midwife. Her comments were abhorrent.

She was awful to people who asked about her freebies - both her and the husband - weren’t great at saying what was an ad or gifted. But if anyone questioned her she would organise a pile on of all her followers and it was nasty.
I have direct experience of two non white friends being impacted by bad experiences with midwives and it’s awful.

I agree that baying for blood feels very wrong. Social media pack mentality is unnerving. I think her comments were really revealing, passing though they were, and I genuinely think they would give rise to concern about her capacity to care properly for women of colour. But it is for the professionals at the NMC to decide what the appropriate sanction is, not randoms on the internet.

But what strikes me is that she has never addressed it properly in public so it isn’t a case of how many times someone can apologise, it’s why didn’t she apologise at all. I think that is why so much animosity continues. Maybe she doesn’t need to. Maybe it’s between the NMC, her Trust, her colleagues and her patients, rather than social media users. All they are left with is a disingenuous ‘sorry if you felt upset but mean people made me do it’ statement and her increasing presence on her husband’s still high profile account doing fashion showcases. I think there’s no obvious sign of remorse and there never has been.

We don't have enough midwives to sack them over something on this scale. Further training, a reprimand, requirement to show insight after training would all be helpful. We don't have sufficient midwives to go sacking them over something like this that is not related to get basic competency or even severe enough for it to be proved that she intentionally was racist. I don't know if her comments were part of a wider picture or isolated but hopefully the people on the panel will know. Not to diminish racism in any way but cancelling someone with years of training and expertise is just not viable or proportionate after a one off.

I very much doubt she will ever make a similar comment again and probably wouldn't have done so outside the toxic world of social influencing which brings out the worst in people.

She is white and middle class, she will be fine.

I think, like with anything else, there are degrees of bad. I don’t think Clemmie is a goose stepping member of the KKK, and if I’m being honest I don’t think she poses a risk to people she cares for (although that may come out as part of her charges, in which case yup sack her). What she said, to me, is the sort of level where public embarrassment, loss of her mum blogger status and some kind of awareness course is the right punishment. With a ‘second strike and you’re sacked’ type condition.

But what strikes me is that she has never addressed it properly in public so it isn’t a case of how many times someone can apologise, it’s why didn’t she apologise at all. I think that is why so much animosity continues. Maybe she doesn’t need to. Maybe it’s between the NMC, her Trust, her colleagues and her patients, rather than social media users. All they are left with is a disingenuous ‘sorry if you felt upset but mean people made me do it’ statement and her increasing presence on her husband’s still high profile account doing fashion showcases. I think there’s no obvious sign of remorse and there never has been

I just think, how shitty would it be to be a black woman who knew about this, then get to the hospital in labour and find out she's the one looking after you.

Yes, a woman in that situation would find it hard to trust her. They would of course have the right to request another midwife although staffing levels might make that very tricky.

Her comments were reflective of some hefty unconscious bias rather than being an overt racist, but it is worrying that she still considered ‘playing the race card’ to be a remotely appropriate thing to say. She worked in an inner London trust which has a lot of emphasis on diversity of patient experience and clinical outcomes, and it is tone deaf to the point of outright offence that she would write that. Nor has she demonstrated publicly (and the comments were public so that is at least partly where their effect was felt) any introspection into how the episode may have made her black colleagues and patients feel.

Striking off is very unlikely, and her local reputation as a midwife was very good indeed before she started her influencer activity, so I do hope she can learn and move on. But it’s all lopsided at present in terms of what she has said where (public/private) so the reputational problem isn’t going to go away quickly, and that will concern the NMC.

Exactly, I know women don't have to allow any particular staff member to care for them, but having seen the staffing levels on the average midwifery unit recently, it isn't really a choice is it?

you’re clearly white if you think leaving Instagram and losing brand deals is adequate punishment for racist comments from a midwife 🙄

do you experience the effects of racism often then? just out of interest

Not racism but another stigma and if you cancelled every one who needs educating you'd be left with a fragment. Do you think everyone who needs education should die under a rock without using their expensive, much needed skills? Just out of interest.

The likelihood she is probably absolutely fine and professional with all her patients imo. Obviously would support that being investigated. But probably true because most professionals are professional and she made the comment in a different context.

@Everyonesinvited

You say she needed educating but she made the 'race card' comment after interviewing her about the experience of black women during pregnancy and labour.

She said it after having first hand, in depth conversation designed to educate people about the topic. And said it about the person who had literally educated her.

It absolutely wasn't down to a lack of education on the subject.

Yes, at the time of making that post Clemmie would have had workplace diversity training, talked to Candice about the BME outcomes report, hopefully READ the outcomes report, and has posted on social media about literature she’d read about racism, including micro aggressions. I hope she has continued to understand how harmful throwaway comments can be, and how much they might reveal about someone’s own bias and assumptions. The concern is that her apology is just lip service and she doesn’t actually recognise the harm that her posts have done.

"Cancelled". Ugh. She's not a breakfast radio presenter, she's a medical professional working in a field where Black women are disproportionately more likely to die.

Racism literally kills.

But, actually, some posters are (unintentionally) right: casual racism is everywhere and is a major part of structural & medical racism.

If we disciplined everyone who said or did 'something a bit racist', we'd have an even worse staffing crisis than we do now. That is the wider problem, IMO, beyond this one person, and one that needs to be addressed as the emergency it is.

Can I just say that any workplace diversity training I've had is an utter box ticking activity. It might be better somewhere like London, but ours has largely been one slide on BAME, one on disability, one on LGBT etc etc. It certainly isn't going to help you unsurface or challenge any unconscious biases you might have.
We ALL have unconscious biases and many of us unsavoury ideas and it's very likely that the vast majority of medical staff treating you do too. They are after all human. Clemmie was 'unfortunate' in that she was exposed. I'm personally not surprised by her comments and her not being aware that they were racist, she lives in a very white, MC bubble. It doesn't matter how many Black women she assisted during labour/birth, she isn't there to make friends with them or to understand their issues - there is no crossover in their lives.

She’s there to undersr

She’s there to understand their clinical needs, which does need to involve not dismissing their voices.

Neither of us are familiar with the specific workplace training she had but mine t

Oh FFS. An edit button and better fingers.

Ours talked a LOT about unconscious bias and how damaging it can be, and how we should think very carefully about it. I would hope hers covered similar ground.

Her bias in her post was very conscious though. I agree it's naieve not to think there is still a tonne of unconscious bias, so not dismissing that, but taking the time to make a post online like she did is another layer on top rather than comparable. It's about bringing the profession into disrepute as well as the actual ability to do the job without prejudice. She has been very open and profited off being a midwife and so should have had more awareness of appropriate behaviour. I also disagree with your last point, having a midwife care for you when you know they think of you as lesser isn't fair on black women and shouldn't be seen as okay ever. She hasn't shown any real remorse, willingness to take a step back from her husbands social media whilst she reflects and takes actual steps to address her behaviour.

‘educating’. Jfc. she’s a midwife, she KNOWS the stats about maternal death due to racism, she KNOWS how black women feel having their concerns and symptoms dismissed because she’d just had an in-depth conversation with CB about it

@TrixiesPillboxHat @Balloonpopped exactly

Identifying, acknowledging, understanding and unlearning coscious or unconscious bias is an active process, it's not about logging on to some workplace e-learning and passively absorbing the information needed to get a pass on the assessment at the end. It's hard work and it's ongoing.

Totally agree but it’s something she should have been doing to be a good midwife, and I’ve repeatedly said I hope she has been continuing to learn. However she did have a lot of opportunity to understand and think about this before she made her comments. She can’t claim to have been someone who could reasonably have been unaware of the race issues in her profession.

@Balloonpopped i wasn't in any way saying she should look after Black women. I mentioned the last bit because posters were saying that she works in a very diverse hospital, therefore shouldn't be racist because she has daily exposure. I'm just saying that her caring for a Black woman isn't going to not make her racist or break down any biases she has. She has duty of care towards them, but isn't their friend to have intimate conversations or know them in depth to be aware of their struggles.
I'm glad some training is better than others @Leftoverssandwich