Clemmie Hooper Facing Midwifery Misconduct Hearing

[Nedmund]

I've not yet seen any other threads on this.

It's not yet clear why there's a heating but it would be interesting to read the decision by the Nursing and Midwifery Council when it's posted online. The hearing ends 8th March.

I'm wondering if the racism she trolled with played out in her work?

@KievsOutTheOven Hahaha ditto!

He's means He is
His means belongs to him

Educate yourself before calling people out as wrong! This is literally taught in year 1

If they can’t spell then they can’t spell 🤷🏼‍♀️

He's means 'He is'
His means 'Belongs to him'

Sorry but.....

Grammar error/typo/colloquialism/dialect/whatever... It wasn't important yesterday and it still isn't today.

Still pathetic to pull someone up on it really, it's obvious what they were saying.

No shit Sherlock but they used it correctly in the sentence before, it’s clearly a typo/autocorrect and only those without a moral compass would point it out - especially in informal communication on a media where there is no facility to edit it.

The Institute of Health Visiting has just published their guidelines for Supporting High Qyality Perinatal Mental Healt Care (Institute of Health Visiting, 2023). A couple of things stand out immediately:

"Maternal mortality rates are 3.7 times higher for Black women and 1.8 times higher for Asian women than for white women." (p.3)

And these, part of their 10 point plan for improvement [my emphases below]:

"Evidence Review: Key principles for practice
All women, birthing people and families across the UK need to:

1. Have their voices heard, feel services are welcoming to them, be involved in discussions and enabled to make informed decisions about their care, and be listened to

1. Receive care that is personalised and equitable, proactively including those women, birthing people and families that are impacted by inequalities

...

1. Feel comfortable and confident to talk openly about their mental health and feelings with practitioners who are non-judgemental

This report is about all women receiving or eligible for perinatal mental health care, and there are other factors that contribute to vulnerabilities and poorer outcomes, but race is a major one.

Ffs apologies for loads of typos!! Really hard to copy, paste and format on my phone from that document!

I think most people would prioritise better and safer outcomes for pregnant women of colour over Clemmie's bitter disappointment that she's no longer being gifted free tat left, right and centre. Pregnant women of colour have a right to receive equal care and consideration from midwives. Clemmie doesn't have any right whatsoever to receive free bespoke kitchens or gifted jaunts to St Lucia.

You do give the impression that you wish her ill. You don't think she should even appear on social media anymore, much less do an important job for women that she is reported to be doing successfully without bias.

I think you're completely wrong and a line should be drawn under what she has done. To this end, imo she should be investigated (as is happening) by a panel of experts chosen according to medical expertise without reference to skin colour, NOT by a jury of non medical black women as some here think would be best. Any decision about her practice should be taken with all women in mind, not just black women, because taking out a skilled midwife for the rest of their professional life will impact all women. Any recommendations should be actioned and Clemmie should be free to live her life as she wishes, returning to Instagram if that's her desire and she can make it successful again.
It helps no one to lock people up and throw away the key.

Lastly, this is not black mumsnetters, this is chat where any issue is free for anyone to discuss. CH losing her job is an issue affecting all women and we are all equally justified in debating it. No one is inserting herself into the debate by simply having an unpopular opinion. It's a woman's issue. CH is white and many of the patients who would miss out on her care are white. It affects everyone and decision making should be shared.

I personally have no idea how far CH was genuine in anything she has said, from the original offence to the apology, but she certainly seems committed to being a parent and midwife now, commuting a long distance to work in the hospital that will allow her to do so. Sometimes it's time to move on.

Er, the issue at hand is a skilled midwife being taken out of the workforce, not whether someone should get to survive as a social media influencer. Completely different things. No evidence CM has any desire to restart her SM life as it was. She does seem very keen to keep her profession and there's something very unfair about conflating that with an unproven agenda to get more free holidays (which I'm sure you'd go on if you were offered).

You're doing nothing for your cause.

because taking out a skilled midwife for the rest of their professional life will impact all women

No it wont, it will just impact a small number of women who are unfortunate enough to have her as a midwife.

I don't care how skilled she may/may not be as a midwife. She's only done one shift a week for years so arguably she's no where as experienced or skilled as any full time midwife. But that's not even the issue. She could be the most skilled midwife in the country, but her measley one shift per week and her likely casual racism means she would be zero loss to the profession.

Well I think you’re completely wrong. You really do come across like you’re Clemmie or her best mate btw.

I’m not black but I am a midwife. I do think she’s brought the profession into disrepute. As a senior midwife and ex SOM I’m entitled to that opinion which I think due to my experience is based on more than just a knee jerk response.

I have never said I don’t think she should appear on social media again.

I would disagree that she's now commited to her career and being a parent. She's still only working just the one shift a week. And she's allowing her husband to shill their daughter's illness in return for freebies. He's so not doing it to raise awareness for diabetes. He didn't even know it was National Diabetes Week a while back.

She's still only working just the one shift a week

Is that true? I've no idea but from FOD's feed it looks like she's gone back full time.

I get that performative activism isn't usually helpful, it really irks me. This thread relates to some of that performative activism by its own subject matter though, doesn't it? However, I don't feel that white people should have to completely sit out of discussion, as long as they are aware there is a privilege of not knowing what it's really like for others and they may not actually see the racism but it didn't mean it doesn't exist. Plus, as a PP said, the issue of mortality rates for ethnic minorities needs more attention.

How do you change unconscious bias/racism/ ignorance (or even ignorance) that can lead to a higher number of deaths among ethnic minorities when you don't change the very staff that could be responsible for it? It would be fine if it were fixed by training but more often it's a fixed mindset that's hard to change, especially within staff that have been doing a job for years. I am sure it will change over time with newer recruits but the training and overall culture needs to change as well.

I've sat in workplace H&S training with people who've been doing their job for years in a particular way that could be done safer and smarter. They will all be shown pictures of accidents sometimes related to their own behaviours and it's explained why we don't do some things anymore for an hour or two. Afterwards, the majority will often say that people just shouldn't be so idiotic and nothing needs to change, they've never had an accident, etc. They will carry on the same risky behaviours when someone junior may fall victim to it. They then claim ignorance whilst grumbling about having to fill in a form with someone from health and safety. Then there would be someone from HR highlighting the fact they did this training and it is misconduct. The scenarios are different in terms of scale but you get my drift.

It would be great if training could help. However, if a staff member has listened to someone explaining in personal, real terms how their race impacted the healthcare they received and claimed to have read books but still didn't believe it, and said they were aggressive and used their race card will a module at work or some staff training really change that? I can't know for sure but it's not unreasonable to doubt it, even just a bit.

Again, I'm not wishing ill of her. I hold no opinion on her husband or family.

The last time I checked in she was still doing one weekly shift. But that certainly could have changed since. It makes sense actually considering that Clemmie's revenue stream from social media has completely dried up.

No, it is quite clear from the reports given my those working with her now that women are not unfortunate to have her as their midwife. You're making stuff up.

Over the course of a career, CH would see a huge number of women. She does not have a string of complaints or concerns from colleagues - nothing to suggest she has put a foot out of line in the workplace and a great deal to suggest she is a huge asset to the profession.

Women regardless of skin colour are affected when desperately needed key workers are taken out of the workforce so yes, this issue will affect many white women who are entitled to an opinion.

That's your opinion and I respect it but we can't simply give up on people because of a hunch on your part that a particular kind of training won't work. Perhaps if it wasn't a profession where skilled workers are desperately needed for women's survival, I could see your point. Perhaps if there was a shred of evidence she is unprofessional or racist at work. But there isn't. Her colleagues specifically say she treats everyone the same. Honestly I think you should go after someone with a more clear cut case who isn't doing a great deal to help women in their day (and night) job.

Many people see this as sharing their journey and raising awareness of a life long condition rather than monetising an illness. It has absolutely nothing to do with the issue of whether CH should be able to practice or how committed she is to the job. And it's not even her account. You're just sniping now.

Do you know, I never heard of CH until her fall from grace and I can't imagine a more cringe worthy fall. I couldn't give a toss what you think I sound like. What I dislike is a witch-hunt.

I don't know what you think your being a midwife proves. You really should know better imo - you're talking about striking someone off who your colleagues speak highly of, in a profession where every last experienced midwife is a precious asset.

You are right that I do not know if she has/will get any value from training. I'm just wondering how said training can be any more obvious or out there than already presented with and job experience. I will never know and there has been a decision on that so I can only hope that it's correct.

I think a few people have now explained why we can't just go on the 'there's not enough midwives so we need to accept it' bandwagon. I do get that it will change over time but I don't think the NHS or any healthcare provider should just accept 'it is what it is' because that really is just saying that deaths of ethnic minorities in labour do not matter.

However, you say, 'Her colleagues specifically say she treats everyone the same.' I'm not going to highlight again that it isn't just about treating everyone the same because that seems to have gone over your head. Can you please link the article/direct source(s) that this comment is from? I'd like to read a bit more about what they've specifically said.

I’m really dubious about the motivation behind your persistent posting on this thread, @Everyonesinvited…

As am I.