Clemmie Hooper Facing Midwifery Misconduct Hearing

[Nedmund]

I've not yet seen any other threads on this.

It's not yet clear why there's a heating but it would be interesting to read the decision by the Nursing and Midwifery Council when it's posted online. The hearing ends 8th March.

I'm wondering if the racism she trolled with played out in her work?

I don’t think anyone is saying they want someone to kill themselves but rather that it seems as though nothing until that point would stop this. I don’t disagree that she could have done a better job of her apology though. I’m not sure anything would have been deemed good enough, but she could have done a better job of it.

You have no way of knowing what's genuine or heartfelt. None.

I'm not remotely over invested and am conscious of what I'm saying. The point is, I don't think other posters always are.

I was not suggesting they want the woman to die. But there is no possibility for redemption - she has apologised, it wasn't enough because apparently posters telepathically know her heart was not in the right place; she has retired from social media and hides under a metaphorical rock, it wasn't enough because she still dares to appear on her own husband's account 🙄, she works as a successful midwife with no complaints, it's not enough and she should be taken off the job.

You keep going and going and going and eventually the target of this abuse gets the message that the pressure is on them to disappear. They become suicidal. Own it.

I think a lot of people just don’t want a woman, who interviewed a black woman about the outcomes of black women in maternity settings and then rapidly went on to say that that woman was an ‘aggressive’ black woman who played the race card, working in a care setting where she will be caring for the women she has racially derided.

And I don’t think that’s unreasonable.

Oh, come on! It's really not on to try to shut people up for saying that racism is endemic in healthcare by contorting the situation to in effect claim that "it's racist to say people can say and do racist things," and to claim that people want someone to die because they're critical of the way someone has behaved in public. This - race and healthcare - is an issue that needs to be examined. It's uncomfortable and shitty. But using "'woke'" in scare quotes won't put people off pushing for honesty and improvement.

It's the age old trick of acting like it's worse to be called racist than it is to be subjected to racism.

I assume that any mother who is happy for her daughter's diabetes to be monetised via Instagram isn't an especially genuine person.

So she's incapable of making a genuine apology about anything because her husband does what many parents do and raises awareness about their family journey with diabetes in a commercial Instagram account?

Whatever.

I don't agree with her being hounded online, if people dislike her they should unfollow her husband and whatever other channels they're messaging her abuse on; it's unacceptable. Also kinda ironic seen as though she actively joined a gossip site to speak trash about other influencers though. I don't think she should be able to carry on working as a midwife though, but of course she won't have her PIN removed as she is white.

Thankfully following legal cases abroad it seems change is likely afoot with parents who exploit their children online for money. About time too.

Basically yes. Anyone who touts their children across social media and trashes their children's privacy in order to get a freebie kitchen or a freebie holiday is beyond contempt.

The main purpose of the nmc is public safety. If they decide that black women will be safer with Clemmie no longer being able to practice then they’ll strike her off.

however “showing insight” goes a long way with the nmc so depends how convincing she was to them.

I think it’s harsh to say some people want her to disappear/kill herself. I don’t think anyone does at all. But many will prioritise black womens feelings and safety over Clemmies feelings.

No, I don't think that's true and I don't want that to happen at all. A lot of people just don't want her to practice, we aren't that desperate that we need someone who is a risk to ethnic minorities. That isn't such an outrageous opinion.

She'd have done training when she started and it would have needed to be retaken periodically. Also as I said she paraded the fact she was clued up on race issues before the comments. Her excuse now during the hearing doesn't hold up for me because of that. Ignorance is just as bad as it's a choice to stay that way. It meant she might not have been aware of what other biases she held and how she might have treated people differently subconsciously. Just because she has been practicing all of this time, doesn't mean she hasn't done that.

There are plenty of jobs an ex midwife can do, there are many former midwives on IG who have other jobs now. I'm sure she would land on her feet if she couldn't practice again.

And I agree that trying to shut down a perfectly respectable conversation by accusing posters of wishing Clemmie ill is very poor form. Especially seeing as there’s a good chance some of those posters will be black.

indeed. of course it’s the white women who shout the loudest, insisting that clemmie’s comments weren’t racist and that we’re all nasty bullies for having a problem with a midwife who is prejudiced against black mothers. why they feel the need to insert themselves into a conversation about something they have no knowledge of I’ll never understand. Tale as old as time

With respect, you have no idea about the colour of any poster's skin.

I am white, but I'm not shouting and I don't have an opinion on the outcome of the NMC hearing - as in, I would hope they make the right decision either way, given they're hearing the evidence. I think maternal care is woeful as a white woman, so I can only imagine how desperate it might feel from the perspective of black women.

My opinion on this is only, beyond a certain point, this level of onslaught / public shaming isn't positive for anyone and often does not come from a place that drives real education and change. It becomes a witch hunt. And as I said before, I suspect those that shout loudest are likely white women - but actually not those calling for compassion, but rather those likely baying for blood, to avoid the situation where they might be called the very worst thing themselves. It's a form of bullying where the bully gets to feel self-righteous and pious themselves. Dangerous.

avoid the situation where they might be called the very worst thing themselves.

I don't understand this. What situation? How does discussing the topic of this thread give immunity to people? It doesn't. Talking about other people's (and society's in general) wrongdoing doesn't mean that one is claiming to be faultless oneself. I've said repeatedly that dismantling racism in oneself and in society is an ongoing, hard process. Some people are doing in public, most are not.

I've no idea about this specific person's real mindset, true thoughts & feelings, or how NMC will respond. But the case is bringing a really, really important issue into the light that needs and deserves to be examined.

Ok, opinions differ.

I doubt she will have her PIN removed, but given the NMC has faced criticism before for not taking racism seriously, it's good they have sent it to hearing. I agree she shouldn't be receiving abuse online, but she built herself an online platform based on her job, so of course questionable actions she should be held to account for- best way is to ignore rather than abuse though. The fact her irritating husband has continued on social media and they both continue to shill their children shows the only reason she deleted her account is because of the backlash, and not because she thought she was wrong otherwise she'd take a proper step back and focus on saving her career surely.

As a black woman I have to say what she said sadly isn't surprising, a lot of maternity staff think it I have no doubt but to feel emboldened enough to type it even 'undercover' is gross. Shows her interview with her was performative as well- yuck.

@WombsofWimbledon fair play

It's the age old trick of acting like it's worse to be called racist than it is to be subjected to racism.

again for those at the back

A tale as old as time. I don't like the narrative though that a poster has alluded to that white women are only defensive to avoid being called racist themselves, I think that's wildly unfair. Sure there are some things I think people are offended on behalf of black people without actually listening to them, but when maternity care is actually leading to black women dying at a rate 5 times higher than white women during pregnancy and childbirth then I for one am grateful for the support. I don't think anyone child reasonably argue that people are just being performative or have ulterior motives for doing so.

Imagine being this confidently wrong.

This is good news. And I agree with your earlier points too. This is one area that Tattle is really big on in terms of advocating for the children of influencers. I think it’s awful that people can use their children for advertising purposes. I think Clemmie got greedy & made some questionable decisions early on. I also think that it’s dodgy that a registered midwife can use their status to sell items to mums. Shouldn’t there be guidelines around this?

it’s pretty easy to guess going by the defensiveness and refusal to listen to what black women are saying