What is going on with MN?

[AdamRyan]

I used to find it a very refreshing and supportive place to discuss the absolute crap that women put up with in all areas of life. It helped me recognise and start questioning abusive behaviours by mu ex. I think its invaluable to women from that perspective.
Over the past few months though, it appears to have changed

• posts about men "needing" sex when their partner isn't up for it and saying women will only have themselves to blame if their partner has an affair because they aren't getting enough sex
• posts suggesting aggression is a reasonable response to not enough sex
• endless endless "women do it too"/"NAMALT"/"not my nigel" on any thread about male violence
• posters calling women stupid/illogical/rude for questioning the above
• and now loads of sponsored threads about sex toys/"reigniting intimacy" when you've just given birth.

I'm starting to feel the whole tone of the site is becoming very patriarchal, which I never felt before. And it's making me sad. I want a space where I don't have to put mens penis wants first. Aaaaargh.

100% I don't use netmums, only have an active account as I just wanted some non bias opinions about a couple of subjects at the moment. I'm shocked at how abusive people are on here. My opinion of netmums is actually is like the bitchy virtual mums In the playground on steroids. Hubby away & I'm bored to be honest so just snooping but I will put down netmums by the weekend lol.
Again not meant to start an argument to all the crazy ones out there lol

@camaleon77 hmm, I and others disagree. It’s quite an aggressive term but when women are enabling the patriarchy to harm other women we should tell them so.

I don’t agree that feminists should not criticise other women - women shouldn’t be made to shoulder the blame for patriarchy but they are adults who make choices and sometimes those choices are shit ones that have impact on other women. If they’re not told so clearly then… they carry on.
i think ‘women shouldn’t criticise other women’ is close cousin to ‘feminism is about choice’ - not all choices made by women are feminist ones.

I have no problem with the disagreement at all. To clarify though: I do not like the term, not because i have a problem with women criticising other women or using crude terms for it. And of course I do not think all choices made by women are feminists. It is not like women are raised and socialised in an alternative system where sexism does not exist.
I do not like it because it uses a victim position as an insult. I do understand you do not attibute the same meaning than me. It is possible to be a victim and a perpetrator at the same time. Patriarchy and how it affects male is a clear example of it. However, some are more victims than perpetrators and, in the meaning I assign to handmaiden the victim side is more prevalent. At the end of the day, very few women are not 'serving' the patriarchy one way or another. My question was really a linguistic one; I was not sure I fully understood the meaning despite understanding the biblical references, the literature and the Netflix series ones. I am very aware nuance can escape me in English. It was not the case here and I just do not like the expression at all as an insutl to women

Oh yes I see what you mean. I’ve realised that I’m not thinking of it purely in the context of the novel/tv series, but in the maybe Victorian (?) literary sense of ‘helpmeet’ which probably inspired Margaret Atwood but was originally used more neutrally. Which is stupid of me. I think I also have it in my mind as interchangeable with ‘Aunt Lydia’, ie. an enforcer, which is clearly wrong too! I agree that handmaidens are primarily victims and I won’t use it again (I’m not sure I have used it in the past… out loud

While I am sincerely sorry for having derailed further the thread I am happy I have got to understand the handmaiden references better.

I agree too. I'd like to see it classified as a personal attack.

Just nodding along here - thanks for this thread, @AdamRyan. I've been off MN for years, mainly because FWR was going through one of it's 'closed shop' phases and I couldn't handle hostility there as well as the rising intensity of feminist in-fighting on other platforms.

Recently I've been getting more MNHQ posts in my feeds, so started clicking through to read potentially interesting threads in AIBU or Chat. Can't believe the amount of misogynistic needling on most of them! There've always been trolls, ofc, but just now the animosity overwhelms reasoned replies by tenfold.

I'll keep coming back, though, because you wise & compassionate MNers are still here. I'll just have to scroll more and look harder!

I've been on here for 16 years. It's less funny than it once was because on every thread someone will find something to be offended about, or completely miss the point and be pedantic until someone explains it to them-By which time the thread has been derailed.
People are much quicker to pile on others and it feels less supportive.
It's a shame really.

Just as an outsider to what I can judge is clearly some form of community here, tone down the language you all use towards each other. It's very hostile. It's good to bounce opinions & debate but what I have seen on here in the last two days is full on attack. Its just ugly.

It's less funny than it once was because on every thread someone will find something to be offended about

Oh, god, this in spades! It's an internet-wide thing, though, isn't it? Most of the offended/pedantic/concerned humour-squashers are trolls, or have grown so used to that kind of trolling online that they automatically respond in that way themselves.

I was enjoying a genuinely funny thread last week (about a certain singing they/them) when it was deleted. It may well have devolved into personal attacks during the hour I missed, but most of it was permissibly wittty bitching about a celebrity seeking shock value. "Not in the spirit of Mumsnet". Pity. That used to be one of the best parts of Mumsnet's spirit!

YANBU. you also can't have an opinion. Or If you do something against the guidelines you're abusive

@EyesOnThePies didn't mean to quote you.

I take it you've never been in a abusive relationship? It's not easy to leave. Women don't just choose to stay 🙄

This!

It's not MN per se doing this is it! It's just some threads go a certain way, encouraged by PPs.

I've started about ten threads on here over the last ten years and have typically received invaluable advice, apart from one of a sexual nature that went viral, globally in about two hours! But hey, you notch it up to experience!

Can I ask why the sex threads & ads bother people? Don't you just scroll past? Again just a question not looking for hair Pulling lol. If you give some valid answers it may get noticed.

I actually think your part of the issue on mumsnet

@Emmamoo89 - the OP was recounting what sort of posts she’d seen, not what she thought about abusive relationships.

garlic were you here a while back with a variety of garlic related names? Garlic sapphire etc?

Eh? I 100% agree, not sure what in my thread you disagreed with

Thank you! Yes

Can you expand on that comment?

Good thread. For my own part I like FWR, and find a lot of the posts about women trying to navigate bad male behaviour quite sad. I would agree that there is some nasty element that likes to pick apart her conduct and gets off on that. There's at least one poster who does this regularly who is just either a man or a very damaged woman. I can never decide. I just don't respond.

I don't know if they are man, woman but the styles are often similar.

My favourite goady style is the "interesting! So you think".

Inevitably that's a troll. They like doing thinking for other people and posting it.

Lots of thoughtful people here though, and that's good. Still more of them.

@AdamRyan, I have had a lot of garlicky names, yes! How nice of you to remember.

@LifeunderMarrs you’re penis beaker??? 😳😂