What is going on with MN?

[AdamRyan]

I used to find it a very refreshing and supportive place to discuss the absolute crap that women put up with in all areas of life. It helped me recognise and start questioning abusive behaviours by mu ex. I think its invaluable to women from that perspective.
Over the past few months though, it appears to have changed

• posts about men "needing" sex when their partner isn't up for it and saying women will only have themselves to blame if their partner has an affair because they aren't getting enough sex
• posts suggesting aggression is a reasonable response to not enough sex
• endless endless "women do it too"/"NAMALT"/"not my nigel" on any thread about male violence
• posters calling women stupid/illogical/rude for questioning the above
• and now loads of sponsored threads about sex toys/"reigniting intimacy" when you've just given birth.

I'm starting to feel the whole tone of the site is becoming very patriarchal, which I never felt before. And it's making me sad. I want a space where I don't have to put mens penis wants first. Aaaaargh.

FWR is full of women whose hearts break for children wrestling with their identity

Hmm. Not sure that's the impression I get. I mean I'll happily use whatever pronouns kids decide they identify with, it doesn't bother me at all.

But it’s exactly people like you who should be posting there. Any right minded thinking person has sympathy for ‘trans kids’ but knowing you can’t actually change sex is the reality. Both groups desperately need a way through and it’s going to come from people like you that know we must provide care nurture for these kids, but also that we must protect biological girls and women in the process.

I wasn’t using it as a stick to beat anyone with - I was genuinely fucking concerned that these people were being boosted by the arrival of GC feminists prepared to work with them. I’m worried about it, I wasn’t accusing anyone, I was asking questions. But no one wants to engage. 🤷‍♀️

No thanks. I had my fingers burned a year or so ago. It's really cliquey as well and they all assumed I was a bad actor as I'd name changed, can't blame them really but it was a very miserable experience.

@WallaceinAnderland - I have seen time and time again on FWR “at least the Conservatives know what a woman is”. I can see there is cross over between the end point of GC thinking and Christian right thinking and also recognise that it’s coming from two wildly different places, but I don’t think it’s disingenuous to be discouraged as a leftie, when I see repeated posts about how only the Tories know what a woman is.

I think unfortunately some posters (noone on this thread) are quick to assume the worst and don't even try to engage with a poster they don't recognise - just assume they know the agenda and go into attack mode.
I got it recently for posting about the impact of S28 - as if I'm a troll rather than someone who was at school when S28 was in place and remembers the culture.

It is tiresome.

But actually my thread was more about the posters popping up on threads about e.g. lack of sex, to say "I don't blame your husband if he goes elsewhere, men have needs" when OPs husband wants sex twice a day and is blatantly coercive

• pattihews:

Yes, ChilliBandit. And those of us who appreciate and post on FWR will look at some of the posts on this thread accusing feminists of siding with right-wingers, and will know who's posting them.

This is exactly the kind of crap you get on FWR all the time now, especially in the political discussions. We know who you really are. *

@TheLeadbetterLife I might be wrong but I felt that poster was referring to a couple of posters on this thread who repeatedly come onto FWR being goady and to start a fight without ever really entering into discussion, we do know who they are because they always do it, you've taken it against you, when I don't think it was intended that way.

I think that's Tory party shills exploiting a point of difference they have, it doesn't seem to be regular posters.

@AdamRyan - maybe I’ve been unlucky then and it’s coincided with my visits to the boards. I have seen it a lot.

I just have a real issue with teaming up with people who persecute women in so many ways but we’re supposed to now come together with them because they hate trans people.

No you're not. No one has to 'come together' with any individual or group that they don't agree with, or want to. If people are actually telling you that on FWR I would be very surprised. You don't have to team up with anyone, just do what you think is right for women, if that is your inclination.

The 'GC women are Nazis' brigade is just one of the latest in a long line of insults against women who want to protect their rights. It's all just background noise to us now.

We soldier on keeping our aim in sight which does not mean that we agree with every other view of every other group.

Who do you mean though?

This gets bandied about too as a way to silence

I don't know, I prefer to think its shills than believe actual feminists would think its a good idea to vote conservative 😃

And what do you think I'm silencing by saying that? Please not let's turn this thread into whether or not gender is the most important issue, it would be a derail which would be a shame

You can’t just say people are shills because they vote differently

It’s too blinkered

Sometimes things get lost in translation in text so can come across as snippy.
There is a fair amount of misunderstanding, so even though two posters are on the same side they end up arguing with each other.
There are a lot of sock puppets, you can change your name but not your voice.
There are more gf than there used to be, but it's best to ignore them.
The feminist board attracts TRAs (I think not that many, they just sock puppet and are very vocal...) that's why you get very robust arguments on those boards.
Mumsnet still has a good number of sound, intelligent, helpful and often supportive posters; it's always had a few twerps though!

This.

I find this attitude very baffling - if you don't want to go on the feminist boards fine, but to dismiss it as toxic and "women going against other women" is lazy and wrong. - I think some people would rather just stick their heads in the sand. I don't find the feminist boards toxic at all - they are full of intelligent women putting their point across and discussing extremely important topics concerning the safeguarding of womens and childrens spaces. It's the TRA's and gender-ideologists who generally come on in a strop as they don't seem to be able to cope with women having these conversations and coming up with very valid points which are impossible to refute.

I can't understand anyone who doesn't take these issues seriously or at least understand why others are keen to discuss them.

@ChilliBandit most people on FWR are horrified to find themselves in agreement with Tories!

I'm a floaty votey kind of person, used to avoidantly vote Green, won't do that anymore.

I'm wildly right of centre, and almost a Tory fan girl in comparison with FWR.

Just because people agree the sky is blue doesn't mean you have a lot in common with them. It's just that for some bewildering reason, the people you have lots in common with have decided the sky is purple. Makes it tricky.

Anyway sorry for the digression.

I didn't mean you personally @HedwigIsMyDemon , lots of TRAs come onto FWR to bash GC women with the 'you're aligned with Nazis' stick.

Sorry - I'm saying I think some of them are shills because its not regular poster names and they just pop up with "at least conservatives know what a woman is"

Other posters are much more explanatory about why they would vote conservative and that's not who I am talking about

One thing to remember is that TRAs/MRAs would love to get MN shut down due to it allowing women to speak but luckily so far haven't succeeded.
They've tried DDOS's and attacked advertisers among other things.
I wouldn't be surprised if some of the posts about NAMALT etc are related to that in some way.

Apart from anything to do with FWR, all of the internet is soaked in tribalism. I don't particularly think MN is any worse than most social media and it's certainly better than quite a lot of it.

I've said that. It's true. The Conservatives are the only party that will say a) what a woman is and b) that they need sex based provisions, services and protection in law.

It doesn't mean that I ally with them. It doesn't mean I'm going to vote for them but it does mean I won't vote for any leader who is either too stupid or too cowardly to stand up for women. Most women on FWR say they are politically homeless if you read their posts.

I am a liberal leftie atheist if that helps.

I know all of this. As I said I read FWR avidly. That’s not the point I’m making.

The point is that I have experienced being called a TRA troll, and the FWR regulars closing ranks with coded language (exactly like pattihews did above), despite engaging articulately and in good faith.

I expect there are others like me who used to be regulars on there who feel excluded now. It’s gone a bit No True Scotsman.

Lots of blokes jump into threads now for entertainment or to goad. Or just to present their views on anything whatsoever, knowing that it’s primarily a parenting forum whose users are mainly women. Even on threads that are not criticising men / a man at all, or anything to do with sex.

Bringing it back to the “not my Nige part” of the thread, I’ve sadly met enough women offline who tout the NAMALT, women just don’t try as hard to get promotions, etc etc to know that it’s not just trolls/MRAs/TRAs. Internalised misogyny is alive and well and social media is championing trends of women taking on traditional gender roles. Homesteading is popular currently. I even saw a group of proud “stay at home girlfriends” on Instagram the other day. Their sole role was to make themselves and their homes look pretty and look after “their men”. 🤢

Fuck me you've just immediately proved the point 😁