Epsom College Murder Suicide

[PleaseStopSayingHuBbY]

I'm shocked but not surprised. This world is depressing and scary for women.

Common tactic used by abusers/narcissists when their victim isn't doing what they want, or to spread misinformation and lies, make the victim feel even more alone and so the police and others believe the abuser and gawd knows many of them always believe the narcissist.
Bloody worked as well hasn't it.

I think it's highly unlikely that anyone would reject someone solely on the basis that their family was dysfunctional in some way. They would probably look at the bigger picture.

I also think that people can reject anyone for literally any reason they like. Dysfunctional family or how they butter their toast. Literally anything. Women owe men nothing and certainly not a relationship.

@knittingaddict afaik Laura Richards hasn't stopped - but I think that Redhanded interviewed her for their book and then received loads of abuse from people calling them TERFs. I believe that they then changed the book to remove her from it. Obviously the book was just about crime and stuff, not trans issues.

That makes sense. I used to listen to Redhanded too and I can imagine them caving under the pressure. Not at all surprised that they would support the trans ideology over women. I stopped listening to them a while back.

I'm team Laura, all the way.

Thanks for taking the time to explain.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/strong-confident-people-end-up-in-abusive-relationships-2017-8%3famp

"Psychological abusers are attracted to what is going on within the person's life that is shiny, glamorous, or exciting, or successful, or dynamic, or vibrant," she told Business Insider. "That's what is attracting, kind of like a moth to a light, these kind of psychological perpetrators, because they want to initially get something positive from that person."

Psychopaths are born not made so looking at family background won't necessarily tell you if you are married to someone with that genetic trait.

They are also extremely good at showing the face you want to see to get what they want.

I do think it's a fair position to take, yes. Someone might not choose to date me because of my past, particularly if they'd previously had experiences with people with past trauma. People have the right to choose who they have relationships with and they don't have to justify it to anyone, least of all you (hilarious that you bang on about being judgemental while being judgemental yourself).

It is not victim blaming to examine what lessons might be learnt from other people's past experiences. No one, absolutely no one is blaming this poor woman for what happened to her. It is absolutely scandalous that men get the idea they are so entitled that they think they own their partners and families.

However, past family background in combination with other factors, may well be something that women shouldn't ignore when choosing partners. These other factors might include: how men deal with being disagreed with; how they deal with being criticised; how they deal with women that are more successful than them; how they resolve arguments etc. Tbh I don't care if that offends you, if it keeps other women safe in future.

Not all murders are carried out by psychopaths. In fact only 25-33% of murders are believed to fall into this category.

Abusers are not all psychopaths. Or even sociopaths.

Well said.

We don't have to justify not wanting to be with someone. This is our choice, and no-one else gets a say in it.

@fairypeasant - you are twisting people's words. No-one is victim-blaming (that's a horrible accusation to make) or saying that we'll never get it wrong if we look at someone's early formative relationships. It's just a gentle reminder that children learn from their parents. Some people internalise those lessons so deeply they can't even see that they are repeating them in their own lives; others can take a more balanced view and make a deliberate effort NOT to repeat them.

However there is no doubt - and psychological long-term studies have confirmed this time and again - that people of both sexes are affected by their early parental and sibling relationships, and that chaotic and/or violent ones are damaging.

I've just had a look to see what the proportion of psychopaths is in the general population. Informed estimates seem to vary between and 1-4.5%, so proportionally even if they are "only" committing between 25-33 % of the murders, they are committing a lot.

It is also well-recognised that not all psychopaths (or even sociopaths) kill people - many put their traits to legal use in the world of business and politics. I'll bet that they aren't easy people to live with, though.

They are, but the point is that you can't say that if someone isn't actually a psychopath that you're safe with them and they definitely won't abuse or kill you.

We know that, but the point is that if they are, there is a greater likelihood that they will.

There are very few certainties in life (death and taxes IIRC)- everything else is balance of probabilities

I think we know that psychopaths are more likely to kill you than those who aren't. Knowing that helps no one, the important question is how to spot them before you are involved with them. And this study suggests that psychopaths are more likely to commit different kind of murders to family annihilators like in this case.
www.psypost.org/2022/08/homicide-offenders-have-lower-levels-of-psychopathy-and-sadism-compared-to-other-convicts-study-finds-63687

I actually don't know if all women do know that those who aren't psychopaths can also be dangerous. I think many women are taught to give people, particularly men, the benefit of the doubt and to make excuses for poor behaviour.

We can agree on that @Basecampzero - and many thanks for the link!

Spot on

Like so many others, I have been deeply saddened by this horrible murder and very unhappy with the way some in the media have treated it (especially that constant display of the photo).

There has been a similar case, also involving a child, just a day or so ago here in the US. Although the headlines used the term "murder-suicide," which is accurate, police and the prosecutors office have been calling it an apparent "domestic violence, murder-suicide." I appreciate this seemingly small, but very important use of language. Naming it is very important.

www.masslive.com/police-fire/2023/02/andrew-and-linda-robinson-identified-by-da-in-andover-apparent-murder-suicide.html

Yes I am really cross about the reporting, and the way the tone hasn't really changed.

And also with the continued lack of outcry about the police/school allowing him to keep his gun on the school site

And if she did, perhaps he had been bullying and goading her fr days, or preventing her from leaving the house, or using the toilet.

In Australia in the 1980s, there was a trend for talking about the results of the "battered wife syndrome" - the effects on women whose male partners were violent, and an explanation for why those women sometimes hit out, or took action to stop their husbands NOT in the heat of the moment or as self-defence eg hitting him seriously while he was asleep.

It was a way of trying to position female violence as a response to the initial male violence, and female violence exerted at a time when the man was in some way incapacitated (eg drunk or asleep). Because of the disparities of strength etween a woman and a man.

Nowadays, we have a much better understanding of male [domestic] violence as involving coercive control, which extends well beyond the particular moment of his physical violence, IYSWIM.

I'm willing to bet that there is a much higher chance than that, that family annihilators are psychopathic

My main point wasn't "all murderers are psychopaths". It's that you can't necessarily dentify someone likely to be abusive by looking at their family background

Also if you read the link, that mem with psychopathic traits are attracted to strong confident women. Psychopaths are very manipulative and so those women get into relationships with them.

The answer to this is definitely not "teach women to avoid abusive men".

That's the same school of thought as "teach women to not go out after dark or dress provocatively"

It leads to victim blaming and shame for the victim. Especially when they are outwardly successful.

Better to support victims and make it clear any woman can be a DA victim regardless of what due diligence she did when choosing a partner

I feel so angry thinking how scared the poor little girl must have felt. So angry

Agree @AdamRyan and we need the courts and cafcass to recognise that and not be dismissive of professional women who are seeking support as victims of abuse

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4739139-quick-poll-of-mners-around-domestic-abuse-no-details-needed

@AdamRyan yes. This.

I think posting anything victim blaming on a thread about Emma and Lettie is unacceptable.

Psychopaths are born not made

Is that a fact? Genuine question.