Epsom College Murder Suicide

[PleaseStopSayingHuBbY]

I'm shocked but not surprised. This world is depressing and scary for women.

I'm ashamed to say that a family member, when told of serious domestic violence close to home, said that her view (yes, this was a female member of the family) was that domestic violence was often caused by lack of sex, so perhaps the woman in question could try being more accommodating.

Sadly a female colleague at my work said the same. Some women are under a sort of misogyny spell, you can see it on some of the posts here too

In the case of the family member cited above, there was a seriously worrying almost romanticising of domestic violence. Very very weird.

@SlightlyJaded

You have articulated your posts really well and they have massively resonated with me. I agree 100% with everything you say, and @thetimehascomesaidthewalrus.

There does need to be something else, another option.

Women should not need to get to the point where they scuttle away under the cover of darkness, leaving everything they have built up, career, home and their family behind, when they have done nothing to deserve this.

SlightlyJaded as does your experience with me... 'Middle class' (tick) professional (tick) 'feeling immobilised' (tick).... So much to lose for us (in terms of income, housing, reputation etc) by rocking the boat ... So it's easy to see why so many women just do their best to suck it up, put up and shut up, to try to preserve the peace for as long as they humanly can. While these parasitic half-men get under your skin, into your head, and manipulate others' lives to their own advantage - at the cost of those others as we can so tragically see.

I also used to wish for a dad or brother to step in/up, hear me, have a word with, or take a stand against, my ex. My kind brother listened to me, but couldn't/ wouldn't comment. People just don't like to get involved in this kind of thing. It takes a very special, brave, insightful person to stand by a victim esp in the earlier stages of the abuse and help them call it out before it's too late. Being an abused woman is a very lonely position to be in.

I can say that over the years, Mumsnet has actually been more supportive to me than any one person I reached out to for help - much more use than a church vicar, family or friends. Real support and recognition came for me when I finally contacted Splitz. (What an amazing organisation: huge shout- out to them). Seeing the Duluth Wheel of Coercive Control, for example, finally showed me what had really been happening to me for so long. But it was many years before I was ready to reach out to Women's Aid.

On top of immobilization i mentioned earlier, I also suspect that Emma will have felt unable to call the Police - not just for the shame factor and the impression it would give to her new employer (to the poster who suggested that the school would take a dim view of this 'sort of thing' happening on school grounds and start to turn the wheels of replacing her, I agree completely and am sure Emma would have felt the same), but also through pure fear. A man who murders his family is all about appearances, impression, ego and pride. She knew full well that shaming him and removing his golden mask publicly would be a catalyst for an escalation in abuse. What she didn't realise is that it was already too late.

It seems to me that pride and self-image are sacrosanct to abusive men, and so any threat to 'show the world who they are' or put them in a position where they have to explain themselves (ie to the police) is an unforgivable betrayal and about the most aggravating thing you can do. Emma would have known this too.

You learn so much by osmosis when you are in these situations. I used to do grey rock all the time, before I'd ever heard the expression or knew what it was - it was just instinct. Emma's instincts will have been very keen - she will have been constantly calculating damage control and measuring her response on a scale of 'least dangerous'. No wonder she called her sister and not the police. And poor her sister who will always wonder what would have happened if she'd got there sooner (answer: She'd probably also be dead).

This has hit so many of us so hard. It reminds me of Sarah Everard for the utter arrogance and evilness of a single man who thought he was so superior that he got to choose who lives and who dies. Please let this be the one that hits home enough to start that sea of change.

I agree. Also some athletics officials have starters' guns, but they could use more modern electric versions.

Some very insightful and humbling comments on this thread. I've only just cught up on it since yesterday.

Blimey shouldn't it just. So true.

Oh come on. There is a very clear difference here in these two cases. Don’t be so disingenuous.

@goodbyestranger (did you name yourself after the supertramp song- a favourite of mine!! ) I have heard exactly the same- when I split with my first husband my own grandma said 'but he doesn't hit you or keep you short of money' ! That's how low the bar was ladies - so so many women who couldn't stand their husbands years down the line but put up and shut up

Society needs to change so that being abusive is as shameful and unacceptable as being a paedophile or a racist.

THIS.

And everything else you (@SlightlyJaded ) and @thetimehascomesaidthewalrus said.

I recognize your good intentions. Tragically, in DV situations, when an abusive man is shamed in public, he is more likely to go home and abuse his female partner and children even more. Professionals working with abusers and victims know the safest thing to do is to try to secretly help the woman without the abuser knowing. Please be careful if you see this again because you may I unintentionally be adding fuel to the fire. De-escalation and distraction tactics are better. Get him away from her with some ruse and secretly hand her a Woman's Aid card is a much better strategy if you can manage that. Otherwise, alert the police. Don't intervene.

Nope. They'll just move one rung down on the 'all women are to blame for everything' ladder.

'She must be lying', said the www on Oksana Grigorieva, when she claimed the anointed Mel Gibson had used violence against her.

Grigorieva provides unassailable evidence that he'd done precisely that, as well as threatening her and verbally abusing her with racist, misogynistic language.

So the bar moves. Vox pop says: 'Ah well, she must have driven him to drink! She was a gold digger!'

1st rule of misogyny: Women are responsible for what men do.
7th rule of misogyny: Women should always be grateful to men for everything.
8th rule of misogyny: Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.

Rinse and repeat with Depp and Heard.

There will be others.

Vox pop says: 'Ah well, she must have driven him to drink! She was a gold digger!'

whenever I hear women accused of being "gold-diggers", I think of the words of Melania Trump (not usually my feminist icon).

When asked if she would have married Trump if he hadn't been rich, she answered (paraphrasing). "Do you think he would have married me if I hadn't been beautiful?"

And she's right - if it's OK for men to use money to buy beauty, why can't women (if they wish) exchange their beauty for financial security?

Fair play to Melania for that one Mosh

(Sorry - to be clear. Not suggesting that Oksana Grigorieva was or is a gold-digger. Just saying why should women be condemned for choosing a man who can lavishly support any children they may have, than one who would struggle)

Don’t know if this has already been brought up

news.sky.com/story/emma-pattison-death-epsom-college-headteacher-shot-dead-in-surrey-was-arrested-seven-years-ago-after-row-with-husband-12806228

It’s been reported that Emma had been previously arrested for suspicion of common assault against her husband and at the time they stated they were having counselling for their marital problems (one of these problems being her job).

Yes it has been mentioned. Quite a bit.

I wonder how many times she didn’t report something but now we will never know. Nor the reason why she may have felt the need to strike him. It isn’t right of course but if they are going to try to make her look like he was in some way justified then they ought to print the whole story. I’m sure they could access it.

Because instead of just striking her, he just shot her and her child dead. And there is no justification of that.

I know what I’d prefer the headlines to say.

I think it’s very telling that he tried to renegade on the slap saying it was a trivial issue. Was domestic violence (perhaps mutual) just seen as standard practise in their relationship? Did he panic about what she might tell the police if they did come around (her version of events/abuse against her etc).

I feel so sorry for their daughter. I really really hope she didn’t live a miserable life as a victim of her parents’ clearly unstable relationship.

If she even did strike him. There was only his word for that.

And if she did, perhaps he had been bullying and goading her fr days, or preventing her from leaving the house, or using the toilet.

As a PP has pointed out it was 7 years ago. Letty is - was - 7 years years old. She struck him, if she did, at a time she was either heavily pregnant or the mother of a tiny baby. Maybe Letty was crying and he wouldn't let Emma go to her.Who knows - but a lot of narcissistic meant resent their wives giving attention to even very tiny, needy babies.

Escalation of male violence when women are vulnerable through pregnancy or early motherhood is a very well-documented phenomenon.

If she speed him, we don't know what led up to it, or over what period of time.

*narcissistic men

Autocarrot is having a field day today

*Also, slapped, not speed

We have no idea if there is any truth in the fact she slapped him. Or if she did, then why. As others have said, abuse often begins when a woman is pregnant/,has a new born

What is well known is that abusive men are quite prepared to lie to get their spouse /ex spouse in trouble. And that often they accuse the spouse of the very behaviour the abuser actually exhibits.

And what we definitely know is that he shot and murdered his wife and his daughter.

I can believe she slapped just because of the pettiness of reporting something he himself called ‘trivial’ in order to have the upper hand.

I was in a violent relationship and the one time I retaliated he held it against me, played the victim and used it to his advantage. It didn’t matter that he had throttled me multiple times, dragged me off the bed or hit me. HE was the victim because I hit once him before he had chance to him me! And he often threatened to report me for domestic violence if I tried to defend myself against him.

Obviously I’m not saying this has happened in this situation, just that there is a possibility she slapped him. It doesn’t justify him murdering her or their child.

I wonder how many times she didn’t report something but now we will never know

ArcaneWireless she may have confided in her sister and what she said may well now be disclosed. I really hope that this is the case, and that the husband is indicted and found guilty in death so that we don't need to have any more of the blame the victim game.

Indeed Crikeyalmighty, such an abysmally low bar. And yes to the Supertramp reference too :)

On the intervention front I remember when I was about five our doorbell rang and I answered it to a friend of my mother's, sobbing and bleeding also with a dislocated hip thanks to her husband who had just thrown her down the stairs. That was my first encounter of domestic violence. It was late at night and my mother took this friend into the house and my father set off immediately to remonstrate strongly with the husband. Poor woman, she couldn't have children and her husband was having a very public affair with a much younger woman and even so he had to put the boot in. I strongly agree with the above point about the danger of intervening with strangers but nevertheless, respect for trying. I think my father made a difference only because he was a man and well liked by almost everyone in the community. The marriage remained pitiable however.