Epsom College Murder Suicide

[PleaseStopSayingHuBbY]

I'm shocked but not surprised. This world is depressing and scary for women.

Agreed, but perhaps his abuse meant she was backed into an impossible corner on this.

I know my ex behaved in awful ways that were so hard to tackle on the inside, even though looking back now it's hard to articulate how I was unable to stop him or get help

Either closing ranks or they didn't know about it.

Although I am not sure guns kept in a private armoury /rifle range are entirely different and I am dumbfounded schools allow this or parents send their children to such schools.

Well the press know about it now and aren't passing comment on it so far as I can see, very odd.

I agree - it's very odd.

I do think guns in the rifle range are different though. You may or may not agree with guns in schools (I don't, personally) but they will be subject to extensive controls, procedures and risk assessments, with very limited if any access to live ammunition. It's different to a private individual having access to a gun and ammunition.

I just watched that murder in the family series on ITVX. In the first episode the husband shoots the wife because she was divorcing him. In the second the husband sets out to kill his wife for leaving him but happens across her mother instead and kills her by setting her on fire. In the last episode the husband shoots his wife and 2 little girls because he was in loads of drug debt and she was leaving him.

In a couple of them the police did not take the stalking that happened before seriously enough. But I don't think there's much that can be done. There is a certain type of man who would rather slaughter his family than let them leave. Its not predictable. We chose our men and hope for the best.

Devastating for Emma and Lettie.

I bet it never came into her mind that he would do this.

SlightlyJaded you have said something very important and very well, upthread.
I completely agree with you.

There needs to be much wider recognition - along with low key but very real, practical help at the earliest stages of DV - the first red flags getting identified and named for what they are. And ZERO shame for ANY woman/girl (whatever their status or income) who reaches out for help for anything no matter how trivial, whenever... And family and friends need to be more alert, attuned and less judgemental.

IME the DV began when I was pregnant and my abusive ex began to realise he would be having to share my attention with someone else. (That's when it started with the threats to kick my head in). It took a few more years for the physical violence to escalate. But how could I say anything to anyone - why, we were a nice family, we went to church!!

Deeply upsetting. I am sure some women who have experienced DV will be experiencing great distress from this also. If anything good is to come of this at all it is for everyone to understand that we never really understand what goes on behind closed doors.

I am also deeply distressed that the media isn't adjusting their headlines to murder rather than 'found dead'.

The press always down play these crimes.

Not an isolated incident
Not found dead but found murdered.

I also find the fact that the BBC still has a picture with their murderer in it quite shocking.

Yes - it's strange that the lazy journalists who trawl MN in the hope of an easy article don't seem to pick up on things like this. You know - things that would actually bear scrutiny

I haven't been following fickle onion's posts, but this does chime with me as a DV survivor. I was so embarrassed to tell ANYONE about what happened to me. I thought of myself as a strong and accomplished woman. If I had got to the stage where I called my sister it would have meant that I knew that I was in extremely grave danger.

A few women - when you tell them about your abuse - launch into a speech about how that never happened to them because they are so "strong". That is so demeaning to the person who just disclosed the information as it makes you feel that you are "less than" people who haven't (Thank God) experienced DV. In truth it could happen to anyone - no matter how "strong".

I myself was once very close to being killed and I am very grateful to be alive. It is many years since I got out of the situation and I am only now beginning to overcome the trauma. The sad outcome is that I developed a phobia against men and haven't had a relationship since. I can't imagine myself being alone in a house with a man. I do not have children - the ex attacked me while I was pregnant and I lost it.

My heart goes out to that poor woman and the little girl whose lives were so cruelly and prematurely cut short. I am so angry on their behalf.

We need to find a way to ensure that women can talk about what is happening to them while being assured that they will not be stigmatised, judged, looked down on, but are offered kindness and understanding, the reassurance that the strength they perceive in themselves is not an act, but is real even though being made the victim of a perpetrator makes them feel so small.

Only farmers should be allowed a shotgun licence on home premises. If you do shooting you should have to go to a registered centre/range with staff and only shoot there. The average Joe does not need to own one.

What about field shooting? Or clay pigeon shooting?

Phatgurlslym I am so sorry to hear of your experience. Thank God you are free of that abuser now.

Abusers are very cunning at twisting the reality for their victims, that's another aspect of this I find horrifying but so real from my personal experience. They are past masters at the transference of blame, they are teflon-coated, and often have done such a good job over the years of undermining your confidence and messing with your head, that it it's very easy for them to keep manipulating you with their bullshite version of events. Please don't tell them your secrets or entrust them with your vulnerabilities because believe me, these will be used against you or to entrap you when tensions rise. These are subtle behaviours that often go below the radar for years while the damage is being done. In my case religion was also used as a means of control and keeping up appearances in the community.

Emma's situation was so well earned and high profile but ironically this also made her so vulnerable in that monied environment. Surely this must be a wake up call about our society's priorities and what really matters, anywhere.

More public awareness and targeted education (especially in schools) is badly needed on gaslighting behaviours and coercive control.

I don't know why but this particular event has made me so angry. Angry at how society has perpetuated these events from happening time and time again. When will it be enough?

What goes on in the childhoods of these men that they grow up thinking that shooting their way out of a situation is the only way?

What can we do to stop this happening again to another woman? To another family? I'm asking a genuine question because I really don't know.

More public awareness and targeted education (especially in schools) is badly needed on gaslighting behaviours and coercive control.

I posted a separate thread about this but it’s had zero responses so putting it here in case it’s of interest.

Women’s Aid have an ‘expect respect’ toolkit for use in schools or other settings with children and young people age 4-18. They offer training on using the toolkit - it’s free, I’ve done it.

If you work in a school/ with young people then it’s worth looking at. Or raise it with your own children’s school and make them aware of it if they’re not already.

www.womensaid.org.uk/what-we-do/education-and-public-awareness/expect-respect/

This with bells on.

I hope it gets taken seriously very soon.

We need men on board as well as women though.

Just wanted to add my anger. On hearing the news that the husband was the perpetrator my ex husband said "I wonder what made him angry. Maybe she had started an affair with someone at the school". Yes, blame the woman. Of course it had to be her fault that her husband murdered her and her little girl. Very glad to be divorced and disgusted yet again by the endemic misogyny in this world. And I'll bet he's not the only man who tries to blame her actions.

Thank you - I'll have a look at this.

There are so many threads on this site it's easy to miss an important one.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4737712-corien-fultons-killer-made-grand-master-of-his-orange-order-lodge

And he was such a coward, he killed himself, rather than face up to what he did.

These inadequate men "family annihilators" make me so angry. Men can be despicable. Why do they hate women so much?

I'm glad that resonated @thetimehascomesaidthewalrus - I haven't articulated it very well, but from personal experience, back then.... I needed something that existed between 'existing in dread' and 'refuge'. I wanted someone to stage an intervention for me. I wanted a mystery person to step in and tell my partner that he was a worthless coward. I wanted an anonymous note to come through the door saying "We know what you are. We see through you." I wanted a giant father figure to take him to the pub and say "Come on old chap, that's got to stop. And if it doesn't, i'm afraid I'm going to have to send you to prison".

I was immobilised by the shame of being a professional, middle-class women living amongst friends who were pissed off when their DH's forgot to load the dishwasher, whilst I was on a constant state of high-alert to changes in the way the front door opened.

But I wasn't ready for Women's Aid. I wasn't ready to give up all that I would have to walk away from - my home, my job, my friends etc - if I ran.

In the absence of anything or anyone else, I needed Society to be my family. To say "This is not acceptable and we will not tolerate it".

The piece that is missing is around that - although I'm not sure I've explained any better with this post.

We need a tidal change in attitude. A fucking Tsunami of it.

Sadly a female colleague at my work said the same. Some women are under a sort of misogyny spell, you can see it on some of the posts here too.

I don't think people want to believe because it doesn't suit their narrative that this sort of violence happens to other people, not them. When the sad reality is that it can and does happen to any woman, any time.