Epsom College Murder Suicide

[PleaseStopSayingHuBbY]

I'm shocked but not surprised. This world is depressing and scary for women.

He was clearly unbalanced

Was he? How exactly do we know this? In retrospect obviously but did anyone know before the weekend?

This is why I spend many hours on here encouraging women to ltb.

One thing I never really get is the posters I see who say, "I've been here for years and this is my first LTB." I always think WHAT?!?! Have you never read a single thread in all that time. There are dozens and dozens of threads where women need to leave their awful relationships.

All this be kind bollocks has really shafted women.

But the problem is if we have children then in leaving we are making them more vulnerable. The courts order contact despite compelling evidence of abuse time and time again. So it's Hobson's choice really.

This has hit me hard. I didn’t know her but I’m 45, Head of a private school, lived in Epsom, have an accountant/ finance husband and a young daughter so it is resonating strongly.

Emma Pattison must have been strong and ballsy to get this role at this age. All those accolades we are hearing are true because She must have excelled to have this position and be the first female head of Epsom College and she did a fab job at getting the school back on track after it’s failed inspection last year.

I’m sure there are many many layers to this and it’s none of our business but I feel we are all curious in order to process this so I have many questions swirling round my head.

I don’t know how a family and school community especially a boarding one recovers from this level of tragedy. My whole team are shaken by this and it was mentioned throughout today and I am sending my thoughts and love to all personally affected by this.

2 to 3 women a week are murdered, and the vast majority do not have access to guns.

We have tight gun laws in the UK, to make this a discussion about gun laws rather than male violence is fiddling whilst Rome burns.

I expect Emma knew.

We're using 'unbalanced' as meaning 'fucked in the head', right?

Ah, now, I can talk about and care about two issues at the same time! Try it.

Male violence, big issue.

Male violence plus guns? That's adding my fiddle as extra firewood to Rome burning, to continue your idiom.

Cruelty to animals isn't taken seriously enough - it's often a flag for abusive behaviour towards humans later.

Utterly tragic and of course, like most of you, I knew instantly what had happened. As a man, I find negotiating this kind of thing an absolute minefield. One the one hand I am sympathetic to the argument that this isn't all men, it's a minority and I get why normal, good men feel defensive. Equally I acknowledge it is a man problem and that women have a right to feel safe and protected and heard. I think I the broader sense there is a lot that can be learned from these conversations but in this case, in these cases, I think they're just too rogue and too random to predict.

I’m not making a comment on his identity, just stating why some people are saying he’s foreign.

I think we know why some people are saying he's foreign. And it's not his birthplace.

From Femicide Census (2020), 5% of the murders of women involved a firearm. As the table shows, 60% of the murders involve either a knife or strangulation.

Husband and I have a gun licence and the guns are kept at home. In a secure cabinet, bolted to the wall and out of sight. I doubt any of our neighbours have a clue. It's not something we trumpet about. When we go to the range no one knows what we have in the boot. If we had to go to the local police station - which is two towns away now and hardly local - it would be a more unnecessary handling and traveling and a bit more open to public view. As a user of firearms I personally wouldn't be in favour of that suggestion, but I can understand why it seems a good idea.

Why can't guns be kept at ranges? Why do we need ranges?

If tighter control would save 5% of women murdered by men, 6 mothers, daughters, sisters, best friends... then we should at least consider that. 94% of gun licence holders are men- the more violent of the two types of human. That strikes me as an unwise split.

Why did he have a gun license I wonder? Not everyone is allowed a gun license, they have to have a good reason to have one. And, living on a school site with a gun would probably have been cause for concern but posters here have suggested he was living in the previous family home for several months so may only have arrived at the new home a few days before.

Yes, he had a licence, and yes, he's updated the address, hence the police phone call a few days before.

The police knew he had a gun, in a school.

I agree

Yes this man is a bastard but the likely feelings of wanting to control are common in men.

Most murder of women has prior domestic abuse. It is not talked about because the victims are dead. When they survive, they confirm what we all suspected. That there was abuse and violence.

Domesticate abuse changes how a person thinks. It is a strong conditioning that places that abuser in the person's mind above all other things. It is headwreck before physical violence is committed. It keeps people where they are for years.

i certainly don’t feel that way and neither does any female in my family or friends.

I'm trying to be respectful in responding to this, but how do you know? From a purely statistical standpoint, it is likely that one or more of them has been a victim of domestic violence or sexual assault. And it is more than likely, a certainty in fact, that most have experienced some form of sexual harassment. Many women are not going to disclose this type of information, even to those closest to them.

It's just dumbfounding that the police and the school were happy for him to keep a gun on school property

I genuinely find it fascinating the absolute hatred and presumption on what happened here compared to the current case in Massachusetts where the Mum killed her 3 children and then jumped out the window trying to kill herself. The reality is nobody knows what happened in those homes and why either of those parents did what they did.

All I know is that’s a lot of wasted lives and I hope their families can eventually find peace from such incredible tragedy.

And who...is killing those men?

Not women.

The family had obviously been going through a lot of change recently which is often stressful, but none of us here can say whether or not there were any warning signs that Emma and Lettie were at risk. The police will hopefully be speaking to the family, friends, colleagues, GPs and neighbours, past and present.

But one previous red flag should not have been ignored by the police in the granting, renewing or continuing of a gun licence to this man: his allegation to the police 7 years ago that Emma had 'struck' him. Emma must have been pregnant or had a new-born Lettie at that time. It seems likely now that this was a malicious report by him, and apparently he withdrew it, saying it was 'trivial'. It is reported that he had a gun licence for a number of years, but why had he been allowed one in a household where there had been even one allegation of domestic violence?

While I genuinely find it disgusting when people try to make out this is a sexless crime.

George Pattison is a family annihilator. That is something men do.

Given that the Met harboured a murderer and a rapist in its heart for years, is it really surprising that the police failed to spot this guy?